Devolution for England
What form should it take?
In 1998 the UK government granted devolution to Scotland and Wales setting up the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly but no devolution at all to England. England remained the sole part of the island of Britain governed totally by Westminster, its people not recognised as a distinct nation. This gross injustice and unfairness forced the Labour government to promise in its 2002 manifesto what it is calling devolution to England in the shape of regional assemblies, which it is proceeding to establish. They are causing enormous controversy and the situation has now been reached where there are three major proposals regarding devolution in England which are being debated. They are:
The Proposal of the Campaign for an English Parliament for Full and Genuine Devolution?
A devolved parliament with all the powers of the Scottish Parliament, maintaining the unity and the identity of England as a distinct nation with her people receiving the same advantageous and generous financial deal as Scotland and Wales receive. If Wales also had its own parliament, there would be parity between the three nations of the island of Britain, resolving the West Lothian Question. It would be for the English Parliament to decide its own location (it does not have to be in London), what form of local government it should have, be it counties, unitaries or regions, with responsibility for health, education and public transport, able to achieve a fairer national distribution of employment opportunities; and empowered to provide protection for the English environment and countryside from Whitehall-directed despoliation by an excess of road building and urban spread. An English Parliament would be full devolution for England as England, constituting the most radical, genuine and progressive decentralisation of power in the history of the UK.
The Government’s White Paper Proposal?
This is no more than yet another Whitehall re-organisation of English local government with no devolution to England at all. Mr Prescott has been bluntly honest about this, flatly rejecting for England the devolution model of the Scottish Parliament which has full executive powers independent of the UK in 75% of governance matters. He has stated: “People do not expect the equivalent of a Scottish Parliament for the English regions”. The government’s proposal is for assemblies responsible for English ‘regions’ of immense size and population, yet with a very small handful of elected representatives, the overwhelming majority of them being from the cities, in this way disenfranchising the rural counties and all the countryside areas, yet with no more responsibilities than those of present county and district councils combined, leading to the likely abolition of our ancient English counties, with all real power, as now, centralised in Whitehall. The 1998 Devolution legislation achieved its aim – the constitutional establishment of Scotland and Wales as distinct nations and made Scotland 75% independent of the rest of the UK. This White Paper however offers England no devolution within the UK of any sort.
The CFER Proposal?
A body called the Campaign for English Regions supported by many members of the appointed and non-elected ’shadow’ regional assemblies already in place wants the abolition of England territorially and as a nation, substituting nine devolved and separate EU regions.
The CFER wants each of these regions to have the powers of the Scottish Parliament, quite independent of the rest, holding EU regional status, able to deal directly with Brussels, subject to Whitehall only to the extent that Scotland is but looking to EU legislation for increasing independence within the UK, hence the CFER use of such language as ‘regional parliaments’ and ‘home rule’. The CFER plans the balkanisation of England with a UK transformed into “the nations (ie Scotland and Wales) and regions”. The CFER brochure statement that: “the north east is fundamentally different from the south west and the north east is from the south east” clearly indicates the direction it wants to go. The CFER wants devolution, but not for England. The CFER may be a campaign for regions but it is not a campaign for England. The CFER campaigns expressly for the termination of England.
27 Responses to “Devolution for England”
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no-one wants English regions,99cent want a English Parliament!
February 25th, 2008 at 10:12 pmIf Devolution is to be properly carried out, which it hasn’t yet then there can be no subsidy to the devolved regions from other areas all funding for the devolved region must come from within that region, any form of subsidy from another area is undemocratic as the electorates representative cannot hold those who are spending their money to account. In the present set-up all funding for the devolved powers in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales should come purely from taxation raised within those areas, but first they should have to contribute proportional to the size of their respective population sizes to the the budget for services controlled at Westminster which cover the whole of the UK. Devolution has a cost, but at the moment the regions that have devolved power are being shielded from that cost.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:17 pmThe main reason the government is against an English parliament is they have surrendered so many powers to the EU (without consent) that parliament would effectively be left with nothing to do.
An English Parliament would be just another additional waste of tax payers money, it would cost millions of pounds a year to fund such a dream “which is what it is” and more than ten fold to fund regional Parliaments. It is simpl,y unrealistic to even hope to establish an English Parliament, the solution would be to reasess the aged Barnett formula and have English votes for English laws at Westminster.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:47 amThe British parliament costs tens of millions of pounds a year to run (or is it hundreds of millions?). Introducing an English parliament would logically require a significant decrease in the size of the British parliament because most of what it does now it wouldn’t do in the future. The cost savings from pruning the British parliament could be used to fund – at least partially – the English parliament. However, even if it were a net increase in costs of a few million pounds, why should we not “treat” ourselves to a bit of democracy? It’s English money after all and the British government seems to have no qualms about spending millions of pounds of English money paying for the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and Stormont Assembly. If it’s put to a referendum in england and the electorate votes for an English parliament with the associated costs then why shouldn’t we have it? That’s what democracy is about.
There is no political will to reform the Barnett Formula because it will lose Scotland to whichever party does it. Liebour relies on Scottish MPs to pass laws in England, the Conswervatives have a bizarre obsession with Scotland even though Scotland doesn’t vote for them.
Finally, English Votes on English Laws or the latest cut-down version, English Pauses for English Clauses, is unworkable and it’s not what the electorate wants. As has been demonstrated by the various independent polls commissioned by the CEP and others, the English electorate wants nothing less than an English Parliament with at least the same powers as Scotland.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:53 amPerhaps if we had an English Parliament we could have free presciptions, as the other countries have or to get. Who knows we might even get a Council Tax freeze as per Scotland, and many other ‘perks’ we at present do not enjoy. We certainly should have a referendum. As we paid via our taxes for the Scottish, and Welsh refrendums on ‘devolution’ they should not mind their money being used for us. If the referendum voted for a seperate English Parliament, then general taxation already pays for the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly. So again general taxation could be used in the same way. The present Government has no trouble in English money being used to ‘prop’ up the Royal Bank of Scotland, so it should have very little problem funding all of this.
January 26th, 2009 at 5:36 amWe will never get an ENGLISH Parliament whilst we have a predominantly Scotch British Government(prime? minister *all his scotch croneys).How can a scotch MP elected in Scotland represent the people who voted for him and run? the british government.I have a number of scotish fiends and have no quaral with them,Just with the incompotant scotch people that have controle of my mony and country
January 31st, 2009 at 12:45 amW J Knowles
Personally I would like to see a federal system , whereby England, Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments, with the British parliament dealing with defence, immigration, border controls etc . The existing taxation system ( some of us Scots do actually pay taxes ) could then allocate funds to the separate parliaments based simply on the proportion of population. With a percentage kept back for the UK parlaiment to fund the defence budget etc .
So thats 49 million people in England, 3m in Wales and 5m in Scotland, no subsidies, no Barnett formula. ( these are 2001 figures ). The individual national parliaments can then divvie up the dosh in the way that their population wants .. If England wants free prescriptions then fair enough .
Of course there may be some issues about whether the NE of England should be subsidised by the SE of England and no doubt there will be issues about mineral rights, the location of nuclear power plants .
The English. Welsh and Scottish people should have the right to determine how their government spends the money given to the government.
Actually we should have that right anyway but politicians seem to have forgotten that they are meant to represent the people not their ‘party’.
A comment on “WJ Knowles” message .. Scotch is whisky , Scots are the people of Scotland. In the UK you dont vote for a Prime minister, you vote for a political party . That party decides who is their leader – ie the Prime Minister , there are 49 million people in England , 5 million in Scotland, the Scots cant, ever, have a majority vote . Someone in England must have voted Labour ! Frankly I dont like Broon , I didn’t like him in in 1985 when I first met him . Equally how the hell do you think that the Scots felt about Maggie Thatcher .. we didnt vote for her but we still got her.
Im a Fifer and a Scot, proud to be a Scot, proud of my country . I live and work in Suffolk, my daughter was born here, it’s a beautiful county and a good place to live .
Soar Alba
February 6th, 2009 at 7:30 pmYou see,you Scots, celts have the best of both worlds,you have manovered a position of looking from afar,but having the luxury of coming to the front spouting off,reversing into the background,when challenged,like a crafty boxer
having all sorts of defence,socialism,of being victims,or English agressors, even edward the hammer, & of course Maggie ! as excuses
Thatcher (who actually made the UK commercially viable)did not Bankrupt us.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:28 amWe can thank the unions for the sell offs,& lack of manufacturing,anyone who lived thru the 70s trying to raise a family with a mortgage will know what i am talking about.
Anyone with a state owned house, had the opportunity to raise a standard in there lives,buying your own house,most people in England did very little in scotland,a there’s the difference
Scotland-scots, great at spending other peoples-money, shouting the odds,blinkered patriotism
Brown the the one eyed idiot will go down in history as the man who F—-ed the World, mr Alba
Mr Wessex, the grass on my side is greener – I live and work in Suffolk , I support the idea of an English parliament, I did work, live and had a mortgage in the 70’s . I don’t like Mr Broon .
But I am Scottish through and through, and Im heartily sick of folk whining on about the Scots have got it better..take a drive through West Fife , see the place, all the mines are long gone, all the heavy industry, there are sod all jobs for men, and damn few for women, the place is run down, there are council house vacancies ( 270 in Kirkcaldy alone ) and some council houses are so bad people wont live in them.Years and years of no jobs and worse no hope of one . The TV picture that you have of Scotland in the hills and Glens is all very nice and pretty but it bears no relation to the reality of mining town with no mine and kids that have only see the pretty bit on the telly. Go to Lochgelly or Methil and ask them what they think of any government, the SNP is giving them some hope .
And that is exactly why England needs its own parliament , because if you go to the North of England you’ll see towns and villages with the same problems, the same deprivation, the same lack of jobs.
I hate to say it but the South of England has got it relatively easy .
Cheers
February 8th, 2009 at 1:48 pmSoar Alba – a Scot in Suffolk
Well McFeagle or is it Alba
you see the Coal mines were in the Forest of Dean, South Gloucestershire , Bristol, North Somerset, the coal ran out.
but the people of the West like good English folk they are,resillient,go getting did not wallow in self pity, defeatism,they got off their arse’s ,worked at being self employed, found alternative employment
dont need to go anywhere to know the housing market north of the border,is so different.
The whole way of thinking is different, revoles around the state,ideas of socialism,i never really think about scotland ,whats happening
The run down mentality leads to deprivation,if you look at the population in the North of England your talking millions of people not thousands,scotlands Hand Outs is depriving the North as well as the south, re Govt jobs, baled business’s, Banks, this cant go on
The One eyed idiot & co, all follow the same markist disasterous beliefs, and now we are bankrupt, and borrowing , cant go on and on
February 8th, 2009 at 8:07 pmWe had enough of scots politicians, also career seeking, gravy grabbing
Politicians in England,
enough is enough.
reason my grass is greener,is because i tender my lawn ,i dont wait for someone else to.
McFeagle and Alba are different people.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:19 pmSorry about that .. my handle here is MCFeagle ( from some characters in a Terry Pratchett novel ) .. the Soar Alba thing is just me signing off – its also a send up of the Saor Alba ( Free Scotland ) handles that other posters use. A wee play on words .
Anyway I’m not here to pick a fight, as I have said Im here to support an English Parliament.
I’m not really sure where folk are going while constantly going on about Scotland, it seems to me either that there is a dislike of Scotland and its people .. or that it’s a ploy being used stir up support for a separate England.
What interests me is how you are going to achieve your aims, which political party is going to take the idea forward ?
The Conservatives ( and unionist ) party have made it quite clear that they dont want an independent Scotland – and that means no independent England by definition. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7876637.stm)
The Labour party’s roots are in the trade unions – they seem to have uprooted themselves but are unlikely to support independence for either country.
The liberals are like the wind – constantly changing .
So how do you go about getting an English parliament ?
Cheers ( is that better ? ) – A Scot in Suffolk
February 8th, 2009 at 11:44 pmSo your not that Tosser Alba ! well done,
I’m saying it, as it is, thats all
Frustration affects all, we get a few scots on here allways complaining why pick on the scots.
Well every-one , anyone has a pop, at the English, we take it, we give it……Go Jeremy Go ! our new Prime Minister “i wish ” being the latest
Yet they all want to live here have a slice of the cake,(now crumbs)
and then start knocking the English, which are ruled by British
mainly Scots politicians, the English in Westminister say very little
Why? i dont know,perhaps some gentlemans agreement or just Plain Yellow , the money grabbers are everywhere
Just saying it,as it is! nearly all politicians in Westminister are useless
The illegal EU membership, One big cock-up, we got to get out of there,the Oil Refinery dispute ought to wake up the working man
to realise, the mindfull disadvatages Discrimination being levelled a
the british worker mainly the English, English jobs for the English
should be the first call,in England
Because thats been the case in other countries of the UK…. for since time began,look after your own first,charity begins at home
How anyone could vote or even support the Liberals, i dont really
February 9th, 2009 at 8:34 amunderstand, what are they about,what are they for,i wonder, they have
so many so called “interlectuals” in the party,truly lacking
in common sense & practability, any policies, Vince Cable is on his own.
Just saying it, as i see it ! i can honestly say i am completely appalled, with the mess we are in from the contrived BBC to Evil stalin types dismantling the Nation
WessexMan,
What I and I suspect McFeagle cannot understand, is that apart from the “CEP days” where you fly the flag in support of your very just cause – there does not seem to be much to raise the game. A few marches and even a token ENP prospective candidate at a by-election, might help focus a few English minds and get some publicity for the campaign.
God, the number of times I have stood in the rain listening to well meant but dreadful speakers and trudged behind various bands, while trying to support some democracy for Scotland during the Conservative years.
Oh how I was told that the SNP would “never get anywhere”, I was “wasting my time”, etc, however now we have an SNP administration and its doing very well, in Scotlands eyes at least. We will see what the 2010 referendum brings.
So how about it? Can the CEP organise a “march for democracy” and just see what happens?
I know a lot of SNP supporters would gladly support your cause, but instead this web site’s postings often go into, lets knock everything that Scotland does, wants or has. For what gain, I do not know as you just end up alienating people who would gladly offer help.
I see your shift key is still working fine.
Dalriada
February 9th, 2009 at 7:28 pmHey WessexMan – bite me! ;o)
Heh-heh – you really are such an appalling little worm. I mean – it’s amazing – you are, singly, representative of the type of people the CEP should reeeeally stay away from.
Point in fact, the bloke above ‘McFeagle’ comes on asking a few questions, all very progressive. Then, being the vile, uneducated little troll that you are – it’s bile and vomit as ever.
Have you any idea, even the vaguest conception of how much of an absolute ******* moron you are? Is that your intention within the realms of CEP? – to just bawl on about how it’s Scotland’s fault, and how it’s a big Scottish conspiracy, and all Scottish people are evil English-hating despots?
You’re the saddest little bloke on the planet WessexMan. You’re like Alf Garnett on some serious paranoia juice.
In fact, while we’re here, let’s take the Man out of Wessex – shall we? And just called you Wessex. Or better still ‘W’. Yup – think that works on all sorts of levels.
When I was last on you barely managed, as ever, to respond to anything through your frothing. Like that other fruitcake who insisted on rewriting Gaelic as ‘Gallic’.
STOP whining about the Scots you bleedin’ idiot – START whining at the English MPs who are – COMPLETELY and ALL BY THEMSELVES – capable of changing things for the English – but choose NOT TO. Deal with it, dolt.
Honestly, you’re as dumb as a bag of hammers. ‘…It’s a Scottish conspiracy ya know – woooooooo….bile bile bile bile vile vile bile…’
CEP, follow Dalriada’s advice. Make practical moves and inform your public like grown-ups. Point towards your own – and please, under merciful god, stop the utterly questionable, often contemptible, Mosleyesque, vitriolic garbage from dunce-capped cretins like ‘W’.
Newton, Johnson, Betjeman – - – - ‘W’.
Think about it. I would have thought the notion of proper English representation was a little more valuable than leaving it to sewer rats like ‘W’. Do yourself a favour….
February 9th, 2009 at 8:47 pmI agree that whinging and whining about the Scots and Scotish decisions on how they spend their money is not productive in achieving an English Parliament. It is, however, true that the big-wigs in the British parliament are Scotish. The subsidiary that Scotland receives does on paper seem to be unfair. Scots would say that the oil is in their water BUT the water border was shifted in the 70’s to appease political issues of the time SO some of that oil IS IN ENGLISH water.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:59 amDespite the smaller issues on what Scotland does or doesn’t have as resources, I’m wondering if the general population Of the Scotish would want to be fully independent? I’m not fully sure if the English would want to be fully independent. I do, however, crave a parliament that represents the English as we are a forgotten breed in this UK set-up. We are even told to call ourselves British or a UK citizen AND NOT English (which is a shame).
I’m not ‘having a pop’ at Scotland as I respect the history of the country and if it wasn’t for the military alliance with the country I’m sure the Germans or the French (Napolean times) would have entered this fascinating and mighty Island and I would be saying ‘bonjour’ or ‘Guten tag’ to people.
However, our issues are rarely addressed as an ENGLISH population like the Welsh or the Scotish people – it’s as if England doesn’t really exist anymore.
I’d personally love an English parliament similar to the Scotish one. I’m not going to bark on about the economic side of things as I’m not an economist. I am a Psychologist however and view the establishment of an English parliament helping the English people think of themselves as English once more.
Comment by “finnerr”
An English Parliament would be just another additional waste of tax payers money, [That is for us to decide; not you]
it would cost millions of pounds a year to fund [so do the scottish and welsh parliaments; I do not see you whining about their costs]
such a dream “which is what it is” [making snide remarks will just motivate us and make us even more determined. Thank-you. Keep the anti-English comments coming] and more than ten fold to fund regional Parliaments. [Where is your proof? Oh yes, "ten fold" that sounds like the scottish parliament costs 40 million to 414 million] It is simply unrealistic to even hope to establish an English Parliament, [Rubbish. It is not "unrealistic". I think your bigotry is showing] the solution would be to reasess the aged Barnett formula and have English votes for English laws at Westminster.
Finnerr, what were you spouting when the scottish and welsh parliament buildings were being constructed? I bet you were saying nothing. These are some of the comments at the time:
“The cost of the welsh parliament building – around £67m – is more than FIVE TIMES that originally predicted”
“Costs on the shores of Cardiff Bay have shot up by staggering 123% – staggering, because of the contrast with the Scottish building, which has risen from a starting price of £40 million to £414 million”
No, English votes for English laws at Westminster in England is not any answer to the vindictive discrimination against the English nation. The English want an English parliament and we want it now! Whining about the cost of our new parliament building is just a red herring. Besides that, it is for us to decide; not you.
The reason you types do not want an English parliament is because you are anti-English. If there is an English only parliament the English can decide for themselves. You anti-English bigots do not want that.
written in 1999:
“In Cardiff there is a fine potential building for the new Welsh Assembly, the old city hall. Instead a new debating chamber is to be built, down in the Cardiff docklands, well away from passing voters. Cost: £12.5 million, plus £5 million or so for associated works. When I asked a senior Welsh Office civil servant why the choice hadn’t fallen on city hall, I was told: “That is yesterday. This is tomorrow.” Today even civil servants talk like public relations people.
More extraordinarily, in Edinburgh Donald Dewar rejected the Royal High School on Carlton Hill – made ready 20 years ago for re-use as a Scottish parliament. He plumped for on an old brewery site at the bottom end of the old town. At the incredible cost of £109 million, he intends to erect his very own monument.”
Oh, and to hell with the CFER, another “wing” of the fascist, anti-English freak show.
March 4th, 2009 at 9:29 amWe Need Regional Parliaments!
Life Revolves around London in England, London this, London that, yes I’m perfectly aware that London is the biggest city and hence should be the more important settlement, but the scale is a joke! Does France REVOLVE around Paris? Does Italy REVOLVE around Rome? Does Spain REVOLVE around Madrid? To some extend yes, but mostly no! Barcelona, Lyon, Milan all are much more important in their countries compared to Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Manchester & Newcastle.
What we need is regional governments to put the interests of us None-Londoners first. London St Pancras gets re-developed, Docklands extended, CrossRail is being built, yet Birmingham New St station is still the most dilapidated overcrowded station in the UK? And the Birmingham Metro can’t expand past one line?
The Flop which was the Millenium dome wastes millions, yet there is still no London-Newcaslte Motorway?
It’s about time England stopped being so Londoncentric, and I think an English Parliament will only make this worse
March 9th, 2009 at 11:00 pmWorcestershire Lad, the British government is too London-centric at times, you’re right. But the British government isn’t an English government.
Regions work on the continent for three reasons.
The first reason is that quite a few European countries are actually federations, like Germany and Switzerland.
The second reason is that most European countries, whether they are federations or not, have been administered regionally for centuries and they have had regional identities for longer than living memory.
The third reason – and this is the most important one – is that the people in those countries are happy with regionalisation. English people are not and that has been expressed through the ballot box in the North East of England which had the first and only referendum on regional government in England. The North East euroregion was chosen because it had the highest level of support for regional government and they rejected it by 78%, the biggest referendum defeat in the history of England and the UK. Probably a contender for the biggest referendum defeat in Europe.
If an English government decided that the best way to govern England was by devolving some of its own powers to a regional level then that would, of course, be the English government’s prerogative. The politicians that would make that decision would have been elected by English people to represent English interests and would be directly accountable to English voters through the ballot box. It is not acceptable for British politicians elected from all four nations of the UK to represent British interests in the British government to break England up into 9 artificial regions of the EU’s devising with nothing to represent the interests of the English nation.
A region is not the same as a country and a regional parliament will never be on a par with the national governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. All we are asking for – and what the majority of English people want – is for parity with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. They were given a referendum on whether they wanted a national government to represent their country, the English have a right to the same.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:50 amWhy is there no CEP for the north of England ?
May 18th, 2009 at 6:58 pmThe CEP is a national organisation. We don’t “do” euroregions. There are branches in the north of England.
May 18th, 2009 at 7:15 pmget a life you greeting english,you english run westminster like its you own anyway so stop crying , i can’t wait till we are independant and we don’t have to be in any way associated with you english because it is actually embarrassing. MON THE SCOTS
September 26th, 2009 at 2:53 pmThanks fot the compliament independance.
September 27th, 2009 at 8:03 amfor
September 27th, 2009 at 8:03 amAhh, independance, you ask for independence yourself yet, when we ask for our own parliament somehow it is wrong for self determination and equality, somehow when it comes to England it doesn’t matter, somehow it’s O.K because they’re England, somehow Scotland must be the one who’s ‘the victim’ yet when the People of England find several injustices in the system it’s all irrelivant because our our MP’s are proportional in Westminster and do nothing about it.
You are an example of Hypocrisy at it’s finest.
By the way, you spelt your name wrong.
September 27th, 2009 at 9:40 amIndependence, as a “greeting” englishman, how can I get to vote for you?
September 27th, 2009 at 11:24 amThe English version of Scotland isn’t England. It’s Wessex etc. I find English nationalism a tremendously awkward idea.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:24 pm