The Barnett Formula
The underlying justification for the introduction of the Barnett Formula was that all areas of the UK were entitled to broadly the same level of public services and that the expenditure on them should be allocated according to their relative need. In 1976, a study of relative needs and expenditure for different parts of the UK found that expenditure (per person) in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be higher than in England in order to meet their greater needs. An additional allocation of funds was recommended so that the gap between the level of public services in England and other parts of the UK could be closed. It was estimated that expenditure in Scotland needed to be 20% higher per person than in England. In 1978 Joel Barnett calculated a formula for distributing central government funds between Scotland, Wales and England. The ratio for spending was as follows:- Scotland: Wales: England – 10: 5: 85 The ratio, which roughly reflected the size of the respective populations, ensured that public spending per person in Scotland and Wales would be higher than in England. The formula was adjusted in 1992 to reflect 1991 population levels but it still understated the size of England’s population and overstated Scotland’s population.Since the introduction of the Barnett Formula there has been no further assessment of relative need. The position now is that Wales receives less public expenditure than it needs to attain the original objective, while Scotland receives too much. There is a case for helping Wales, which is one of the poorer parts of the UK, but it is plainly unfair to subsidise the entire population of Scotland to the tune of £30 per person per week. In the financial year 1993/4, identifiable government spending was 21% per person higher in Scotland than in England. By 1995/6 it had increased to 24%, and for Wales it was 17% higher.
The position for England, and especially its most needy areas, is worst than the figures above suggest. The 24% extra that Scotland receives is for all public service and welfare spending, including that on social security. Spending in policy areas that have been devolved to Scotland has been on average 31% per person higher in Scotland than in England. Spending in Scotland on health and personal social services was 22% higher; education 31% higher; transport 31% higher; trade, industry, energy and employment 55% higher; housing 87% higher; agriculture 123% higher. This despite Scotland being the third wealthiest region in the UK. (London and the South East were counted as one region in 1995/6) The additional funding for services in Scotland under the Barnett formula amounts to £8 billion each year. It is for this reason that public spending on health and education is higher per person in Scotland than in England. This has meant, for example, smaller class sizes in Scotland, higher pay for teachers, and the availability of NHS prescription drugs that are unavailable in England on grounds of cost.
On 22nd June 2000, Lord Barnett gave evidence to the Commons Treasury Select Committee. “I didn’t know it would last all of these years. I thought it was a temporary expedient but it finished up as a formula – nobody wanted to change it. There is huge scope for improvement because there was no assessment of real needs – that’s the real trouble. So consequently this formula that I used in 1978 is still being used today and that was purely political – there was no proper needs assessment – but Margaret Thatcher and John Major were frightened to change it for fear of loosing seats. The present government are reluctant to change it despite the fact that it clearly needs changing, and you should look at real needs – they are reluctant to change it now because they fear what will happen because of devolution in Scotland &- Scotland gets far more than it should.”
62 Responses to “The Barnett Formula”
Leave a Reply
If you haven't posted a comment here before or you put lots of links or words that Wordpress thinks might be a bit dodgy then your comment will be held for moderation. If you don't see your comment straight away, don't post it again - it'll be approved when someone gets a spare few minutes to review it!
i cannot believe any Englishman has a good word about this bloody formula,which planned & hatched back in the seventies,volumed controlled formula which you ajust according to cicumstances percentages…Lord Barnett says he did not want it to last all these years, typical of a Englishman to invent it,& the English Politicians to not put a cap on it.some sort of timescale, i thought politicians were suppose to look to the future,& foresee some problems,might of known they could’nt care a less!lets just hope we English remember these injustices..and act accordingly…in the future
February 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pmSadly, as we often point out, there are no English politicians. Until there is an English Parliament there cannot be. Just ask how many “UK Rump” politicians even regard themselves as English!
February 27th, 2008 at 10:10 amPerhaps one of the best recent examples of “UK Rump” politicians and political types to the concept of England is illustrated by Neil Harding –
http://brightonregencylabourparty.blogspot.com/2008/02/english-nationalists-need-lessons-in.html
The attitude can be summed up thus:
The English are far too mongrel to exist. These mongrels are not very bright, are highly racist, and all the best innovations over the centuries have been made by recent new comers.
England does not exist.
We must do what’s best for BRITAIN. We are BRITISH.
“Health apartheid? Don’t bother me with details!”
February 27th, 2008 at 10:26 amwell,this miss/mash of information,is more like bullshit baffles… up& down is at least better than going around in circles,stirring things up & to what avail.the British Politician will certainly have one big shock at the next Election!Britain is Broken & no one can fix it.
February 27th, 2008 at 6:46 pmMy father once said to me that English is a language, not a race. This hurt as i was at an age where i had just become aware that all the shame that i had percieved over the years for being “English”, was for actions committed in the name of Britain, by British subjects and were being layed at the feet of England and it’s people.
I believe that England, when in being, has done more, and will do more for the world at large, and for freedoms much taken for granted now, than any other nation.
We stood alone (i was not born then) against a regime that would dominate our world if left to do so. Even as america ploughed money and material into the enemys’ hands, we stood alone.
When the time came, we were cheated, and relegated to the bounderies, we stood in the rain.
The world is at the mercy of american money and influence, they are making peoples offers that they can not refuse, rather like gangsters do, and then are pulling the carpet out from under their feet, it’s as though they were saying “That’s a nice economy you’ve got! NOT”
Somehow the Scotts seem to be everywhere, T.V. Radio, the policeforce, teachers, telephonists at British gas, all the debt collectors, and the speaker of the house, and most of the army that is there to defend us, not kill whom we dont like, are Scotts Brigades.
We are literally at the mercy of our bitterest past enemies, how did that happen, is the Queen as powerless on English soil, as English law is?.
I can not believe that the English are racist as a nation, they are too busy deriding themselves. And what other nation state invites all the world to speak properly, none that i can see.
Oliver Cromwell would not wear the English crown, as this was missing the point, his aim was to free mankind from the shackles of the devil, and govern in the eyes of God. So, if England does not exist, who was God talking too?. This is a language, yes, and a people, for i am one, and not to forget that the mongrels of this world are often better equiped to survive and adapt than those that consider themselves of a British pedigree.
Soon, those fickle crusaders of pleasure that went off to spain with their English money, to buy castles made of sand, will be tapping lightly on the window, for their dreams are in the rubble, and their money taken away by enmity long forgotten.
So, there is no Knight in shining armour, no rescuer, no superman, only Ed Balls, a man that fits his policies to his name, a man that will use the story of a poor unfortunate child, to galvanise the Sun reading nation into fury, so that he can get his Hitleronic hands on English children, and really erradicate the English.
If there are Englishmen, let them be counted amongst the finest, and let our moat be dredged, the drawbridge closed, and lets divide among the loyal.
“Where’s my Churchill Tank”
December 12th, 2008 at 5:30 pmP.S I thought the Barnett Formular was somekind of hair gel?.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:35 pmBriefly, England is the greatest country that the world has ever seem. We are greater than the furthest expanse of the 1st Chinese Empire, more powerful than the Egyptians, more influential than the Greeks, and more organised than the Romans. We have proved this by first silencing our troublesome neighbours; Scotland, Wales & Ireland (to some extent) all of whom were and probably still are, jealous of our freedoms, our independence, our genius and our power. We adpapt very quickly and this makes us almost unbeatable in war – unless we are fighting ourselves – of course! Since we have this indispensible capacity, we have been fortunate enough to use it wisely not only to ensure our survival, but the survival of our way of thinking, our generous attitude, our benevolence, our warmth and fairness, all of which are far far more important. This is our real culture and this what we will die for. For we know how to accept that which we cannot change and subdue that which attempts to change us. Because since our establishment here in Britain ovr 1500 years ago, we English have turned the basic British way of life into an enigmatic novelty and we have imposed our language, our culture and our glorious traditions on these war-like elemetals who have been forced to accept us, mostly against their wills to begin with, and gradually, to accept us by tollerating the benefits they have received from us over the years. Under the British flag, we the English, have led the peoples of this island to economic conquests and dominance all over the world, and we have forced all peoples to learn our ways of living and our ways of prospering over and above their own, and for their own good, which most, now accept with few provisos. The gun has been a big part of this, and without it, our culture would not be as dominant all over the world, as it is today, in every country and in every culture and in every continent: in fact, almost everywhere on planet Earth! We are the people who have subdued and civilised and educated this whole planet into our way of thinking – but the work is not done. There is still some work to do – because our children, the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and others have been blinded by anti English propaganda which demonises us for creating riches where there were none, organisation where there was chaos, a sense of jutice where there was only force and brutality, an aim of healing where there was only suffering, and healthy living where there was predominantly sickness and pain. This is what it means to be English and this is the weight that every English person carries with them on their shoulders, not as a yoke (as our enemies would have it), but as a burden of responsibility which must not be released into the hands of others, or the world that WE have created will fall into a dark age, far darker than any dictatorship, far darker than any cowardly gutless obedience, far far darker than any state imposed unfair laws, and more obscure than any futile war of greed. Criticisms of our desired way of life and our peaceful tolerant society, come from the enemies of our civilising influence and from those who would rather not have what we have given, but instead the nihilism and barbarism of the ignorant which must be anathema to ourselves and to our English people. Without an England, the world must implode upon itself and be subdued by the land of darkness which hangs over us like shadow of the re-introduction of the wolf into our peaceful forests, the dismantling of our Hadrians wall which has kept us safe for centuries. It currently lies almost abandoned and can’t keep wolves out for too much longer. Lets start to re-man that wall – and keep an eye our for those blood-thirsty wolves! They are there, and they are coming; and they will take what is yours unless you stand up and do something. Now.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:15 amWell what a refreshing post! So many words and so few lines
Do you know what a paragraph is?
December 17th, 2008 at 6:50 pmWell yes I do Dalriada. Do you? There’s no set size for a paragraph that I’m aware of. However, the brief sentiment covered in my short paragraph explaims simply why England is the greatest country on Earth. That’s all. That’s the paragraph.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:38 pmArdian,
I suppose we can all be thankful you managed to keep the paragraph so short then. If that is the “brief” version, I would hate to try and read the full blown script..
I liked the bit about the wolves and Hadrian’s wall though, you could make a film about that, “A Celtic Werewolf in Roman Britain”. Actually we might need to work on the title a bit, but you get the gist.
You get a couple of dozen Southern Europeans to play the parts of the Romans defending the wall. It’s a winner..
December 18th, 2008 at 8:34 pmLOL! Adrian, thanks for the best laugh in several months! I’m sure that scholars the world over will simply cast the wonders of the ancient world, along with the founding fathers of mathematics, astronomy and reason to one side – at least for three-nanoseconds or so – to embrace your wildly inaccurate jingoistic neo-fascist garbage.
What an absolute plank.
Are you for real?
Newsflash Adrian, your ‘children’ are not Englands – they are the children of a dozen cultures and more, and many of the central influences in some of these countries have been Scots and Irish! Further, many of these ‘children’ have said ‘Thanks, but no thanks’ to the notion of English freedom.
Whereas some of your pub mates might nestle comfortably in this fairy-tale the fact remains that England – like ANY other country – has a past of barbarity, next to reason, cruelty, next to progression. Further, from a military point of view, I think you will find, from time to time, that the English notion of Freedom is one that would have been taken with a very large dose of salt, esp. in Plantagenet times.
Or are you one of the ignorant who views characters like Edward II as a ‘failed King’ because he didn’t manage to ‘unite’”BRITAIN”.
So Adrian, are you starting a new ‘British brothers league’? Are you the new Henry Hamilton Beamish? Or, heavens above, should we just call you Sir Oswald Mosley?
“Fascism is an authoritarian or totalitarian nationalist ideology.[1][2] It is primarily concerned with solving the perceived problems of national decline or decadence, by achieving a millenarian national rebirth, exalting the nation or race above all else, and promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.”
You are a despicable little runt Adrian – LONG may your idiotic rantings continue, so people know WHAT wolves to beware.
PRATT! ;o)
December 20th, 2008 at 1:24 pmMerry Christmas MacNasty
December 20th, 2008 at 2:44 pmThank you for your comments Dalriada.
Actually the Scottish Parliament have agreed plans to introduce wolves back into the wilds in Scotland. The British (on behalf of England) have plans to re-introduce beavers with the same relish. They also seem to be dying out. I know which I would rather have in my countryside particularly with the imagery which beavers have!
It just so happens that I did write a filmscript set in this particular troubled time. So yes, Boudicca Regina should have been a winner, but British & European
financiers didn’t think so.
As far as “Alba” is concerned.
Isn’t Alba the Gallic name for Scotland? Why aren’t you speaking Gallic then? And isn’t “Scotia” the civilised Greek name for your land of darkness? So, my obscure and archaic dark friend, how come you’re speaking English (the language of the greatest people the world has ever seen) and not some mysticsal barbaric language that believes in taunting and goading as a pasttime? Well I’ll tell you why, you great plonker: it took great acts of courage from people like me, to subdue and civilise barbaric idiots like you, who are as fascist and unrealistic as you obviously are. I think you should take a leaf out of Alex Salmonds book and deal with the facts of England and Scotland as they are and as they have been for over the past 2000 years, and not invent an inverted and idiotic history which only makes sense in the eyes and the ears of people who hate us as you obviously. We took away your precious barbarism and you’ll never forgive us. Ha!
We English are tollerant of illogic – up to a certain level – and your constant abuse is fast reaching that upper limit. You seem to me to be like a drunken Scotsman who shouts abuse at every passing stranger in the streets of London (and not Glasgow or Edinburgh). I see no reason why you should wish to goad and torment us other than to demonstrate what an utter cunt you really are to the core. If you hate us so much, why don’t you just go home or attack us physically if you really want to challenge us again?
Fortunately, you have chosen to sign your comments about my country’s history, with a name which speaks volumes for your own knowledge and understanding of genuine history, and so, I’ll leave the readers to find that out for themselves.
I apologise for the use of savoury language to those civilised readers who are used to discussing and arguing topics from a factual point of view and not from solely a warped and emotive point of view which avoids reasons, ideology and justice.
December 20th, 2008 at 5:13 pmUmmmmmmm, still waiting on an answer, pratt!? Having re-read my own comment, other than highlighting you for the Mosleyesque fringe-maniac you clearly are, I don’t believe I’ve actually said anything to offend??? No?
Yes yes, we all know about the factual introduction of Lupus. Big fan, in fact…
…now, back to my retort on some of your ummmmmmmm, enlightening comments. You know? All the countries you mentioned being ‘England’s’. The kind of W-A-N-K-E-R who who would be capable of actually saying ‘..my cundry is da greatest cundry in the world…’. England alone as a purveyor of freedoms etc. etc. LOL!
No fascism from my end, no ‘barbarity’. Can you point any of this out? Can you?
Few pointers for ya though in any case mate. England and Scotland ‘for the past 2000-years’ – eh? GALLIC is spelled Gaelic, imbecile. Also delighted to point out that many of my family members DO speak Gaelic. Hell, some even speak Welsh. ;o) Beautiful languages they are too.
If you wanna be a stickler though, I’d suggest that most people speak Scots English now because those ‘freedoms’ you were banging on about spouted a British genocide in the highlands. No? Or were the British just ‘civilising’ everyone?? LOL!
Heartbroken about your film script mate – really – god alone knows what that would have been like. Is there no financiers on the horizon Adrian? I tell you what, if I ever hit the lottery, I’ll write you a personal cheque. I want to see it *that* much.
So, the only one who is shouting here – the ONLY one making bizarre, preposterous and thoroughly misguided statements – and the ONLY one who sounds like a class-A crank is [funnily enough] yourself – you utterly deplorable [yet wildly enjoyable] space-cadet.
Let’s play some of Adrian’s highlights, shall we? Feel free to replay any of the assumptions you’ve said I made Adrian.
- Adrian likes beaver over Wolves. Phew!
- Adrian wrote Boudicca Regina. It sucked.
- Adrian understands that “Alba” is the ‘Gallic’ name for Scotland.
- Adrian thinks Scotland is ‘a land of darkness’. LOL!
- Adrian has an ‘archaic dark friend’. Me, apparently.
- Adrian thinks other languages believe in taunting and goading as a past-time.
- It took great acts of courage from people like Adrian to subdue and civilise barbaric idiots like the Scots, Welsh and Irish.
- The Scots, Welsh and Irish are as fascist and unrealistic as Alba. LOL!
- Adrian feels we should take the ‘British’ facts for what they’ve been over the past ‘2000′ years.
- Adrian has apparently read an inverted and idiotic ‘re-written’ history in my 300-word comment.
- Adrian believes that Scots, Welsh and Irish never forgave England because they took away our ‘precious barbarism’. Ha! LOL!
- Adrian believes my comments have goaded and tormented him, and/or the English.
- Adrian’s history is ‘genuine history’.
- Adrian believes Alba’s comments deny reason, ideology and justice. LOL! LOL! LOL!
- Adrian believes that England is greater than the 1st Chinese Empire, the Egyptians, the Greeks, and the Romans.
- Adrian believes that England is, at once, ‘greater’ than anyone [thus proved by 'silencing' troublesome neighbours] whilst ALSO being the definition of freedom and the banner of peace.
- Adrian believes the English are ‘almost unbeatable in war’. At any time. Ever. Honest.
- Ummmm, when they’re not being generous, benevolent, warm, fluffy and fair.
- UNLIKE war-like ‘elemetals’ – the Scots, Welsh and Irish – presumably.
- Adrian believes, without an England, the world must implode upon itself and be subdued by a land of darkness. Oooooooo.
Adrian is, in short, a complete fud. Or a fruit-cake. Or perhaps a fud IN a fruit-cake. Whatever.
Adrian, pleeeeassse write another email. You might be busy at the mo playing ‘reach around’ with Wessex, of course – the voice of reason and another excellent front-man for what is [actually] a bang-up and thoroughly justified campaign.
Oh, and pleeease point out to the readers were my ‘obvious fascism’ is really getting out of control.
Hold on – I’m off to get a chair. Give me a sec. There ;o)
December 21st, 2008 at 12:52 amYour a Racist & Deranged ! MacNazi , Institution awaits…..your be at home there Ol’ Gal
December 21st, 2008 at 1:50 pmThank you for your personal offer to finance Boudicca Regina. I don’t believe that you are genuine though! I wonder why that is? Could your antagonism and your barbarism have anything to do with it? In case you didn’t know, Gallic is the language spoken in Scotland and Gaelic is the language spoken in Ireland. Your ignorance of your own barbaric background is to be expected! You’d be much better advised to study the concept of civilsation through the ages rather than to attempt to nit-pick civilised people, such as myself. Its futile.
You must be a sad and very lonely man, Alba, to have the time to sit there spending hours and hours attempting to find ways of criticising my comments. Its truly a waste of your time trying to invent what I have said. People will just read what I have actually said and learn from it. I am one who knows and you are one who tries just to criticise. So,I suppose, you will just have to remain in darkness, and full of bitterness, anxiety and hate since that is who you are, right? I hope that at some point soon, you will let go of your foolishness and embrace the light of the truth. That way we can share in the benefits which the union has given us both over the years. And we both have benefitted, but now, it is over….
Am not sure who you are WessexMan? It seems that your comments are aimed at Alba, but its hard to tell from what you actually say. Perhaps you could be more coherent and more explicit so that we can all know who you are, and what you are saying, please….
December 21st, 2008 at 7:38 pmAs entertaining as it is watching you lot tear strips out of each other, this isn’t the right place to do it.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:50 pmI am aware that this space is reserved for discussion on the Barnett Formula, but in essence, there’s no sense in discussing the Barnett Formula with people who don’t care what you have to say about it, is there? So if Alba chooses to spread his malicious gossip for YOUR entertainment, he’ll have to get it past me first, as will everyone who shares his freakish opinion of the English. Its all propaganda and lies and I don’t need to tollerate it anymore and I don’t need you calling this kind of bullying, entertainment. So please watch what you say in future. I personally find it offensive.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 amAdrian Im 101% with you ! England with the people ! the Greatest Country in the World
Apart from the Discrimination of the Barnett formula.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 pmThe Inequality we in England have to endure
The formula,is racsist !
On that basis alone, We Must Have a English Parliament !
The People of England need Self Determination,we need loyal Patriots to serve England
LOL! Agreed Wonko – but c’mon, these guys are worth it.
One is stark raving and can’t actually speak English [irony?] and the other is plain madder than mad Jack McMad. Consider it welcome relief amidst your campaign.
Keep it coming Adrian – you are one priceless crackpot. ;o) Here, have a wee read at this in the meantime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic
Not enough? Hmmm, lets reaaaallly stretch those synapses, shall we? Gaelic is the English word for Gàidhlig – let’s spell that out G-A-E-L-I-C. Irish Gaelic, phonetically, is pronounced ‘gaylic’ – whereas Scottish Gaelic is pronounced ‘gaalic’.
Still confused Adrian? Well golly gosh, I insist you write immediately with your thoughts on the correct spelling of Gaelic to the good people in the ‘Big college’ in Skye! Sabhal Mòr Ostaig? Go on, click away – http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk – you might want to search for your own take here, amidst the several hundred pages.
Dear-oh-dear. Tut-tut-tut. One has to wonder, given your obvious mastery of the subject matter Adrian, whether you might have had ‘all the facts’ right in your script? Perhaps this is why it was drop-kicked. Nah? Should we expect Boudicca herself charging into the massed Roman ranks, underneath the St.George? Do we have Romano-Brythons shouting on the Heptarchy? LOL!
On a final note Adrian, you don’t also partake in Paleoanthropology at all do ya? Shucks, have you been writing the Smithsonian again? Or worse, are you also writing the next ‘Jurassic Park’ script?
http://fishfeet2007.blogspot.com/2007/04/palaeobarbius-malibui.html
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 pmWha’s Like Us – Damn Few And They’re A’ Deid
The average Englishman, in the home he calls his castle, slips into his national costume, a shabby raincoat, patented by chemist Charles Macintosh from Glasgow, Scotland. En route to his office he strides along the English lane, surfaced by John Macadam of Ayr, Scotland.
He drives an English car fitted with tyres invented by John Boyd Dunlop of Dreghorn, Scotland, arrives at the station and boards a train, the forerunner of which was a steam engine, invented by James Watt of Greenock, Scotland. He then pours himself a cup of coffee from a thermos flask, the latter invented by Dewar, a Scotsman from Kincardine-on-Forth.
At the office he receives the mail bearing adhesive stamps invented by James Chalmers of Dundee, Scotland.
During the day he uses the telephone invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland.
At home in the evening his daughter pedals her bicycle invented by Kirkpatrick Macmillan, blacksmith of Dumfries, Scotland.
He watches the news on his television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland, and hears an item about the U.S. Navy, founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland.
He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks up the Bible only to find that the first man mentioned in the good book is a Scot, King James VI, who authorised its translation.
Nowhere can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots.
He could take to drink, but the Scots make the best in the world.
He could take a rifle and end it all but the breech-loading rifle was invented by Captain Patrick of Pitfours, Scotland.
If he escapes death, he might then find himself on an operating table injected with penicillin, which was discovered by Alexander Fleming of Darvel, Scotland, and given an anaesthetic, which was discovered by Sir James Young Simpson of Bathgate, Scotland.
Out of the anaesthetic, he would find no comfort in learning he was as safe as the Bank of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries, Scotland.
Perhaps his only remaining hope would be to get a transfusion of guid Scottish blood which would entitle him to ask “Wha’s Like Us”.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:18 pmYou two charlies,forgot to Mention who invented the Computer! Englishman Alan Turning ! na na na na ! …….grow up ! I thought the regulator wanted consructive views in the 21stcentury
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:28 amwessexman i couldnt resist just havin a wee laugh….MERRY KRIMBO TO ALL
ps you will never take our FREEEEEEEDOM
December 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pmHmmm. Lookslike Alba doesn’t accept when he is intellecually beaten and needs help from his chum clyde. Usually in these circumstance something bad happens to these kinds of people to reconcile them with truth and justice. A kind of a lerning process fro the stupid. Reality is a very bitter pill to swallow for proud people, so maybe taking cyanide washed down with a swig of gin might be the answer!? Oh, I just thought I might mention that no inventions by anyone could have taken place in London or anywhere else in our English world without English leadership in providing the environment for good clear and civilisd thinking and good pactices. This involved suppressing your country’s babbling barbaric outbursts which don’t really help and providing an infrastructure for invention and creativity which wasn’t there before. Only then could clear thinking in Scotland be used to invent product for the English market and the English world. The good book was required to be trnslated into ENGLISH not Pictish, Scotis or Gallic and this was done. It wouldn’t have mattered which Scotsman authorised it, it would have still been translated for everyone in the world to read the word! Oh, and the best drink in the world is bourbon, an Englishman’s taste of better Scotch! Smoother and creamier rather than rougher and more coarse. Don’t forget, that the USA was founded by Englishmen. I don’t think that there were any Scots involved there at all – except British-Scots fighting to prevent independence! As a matter of interest, there were no English in Britain at the time of Boudicca. She is more Scottish than English but still beaten by the forces of civilisation after creating havoc and mass murder in support of the celtic way of life. In hindight it was really futile, don’t you think?
Alba, you seem to believe in selective propaganda and you also like to rewrite the current use of the term Gallic and Gaelic just to prove me wrong. Sorry it doesn’t work that way. Facts are facts regardless of what new entities like to invent. There’s little evidence for the assertion in Wikpaedia and the little that there is, is a little too shaky to be thought of as fact. You also like to believe what unknown and unqualified peole write about so long as it fits in with your twisted view of reality! Very good! Now you are living in Scotish fairy-land where any dream can come true so long as its a Scotish fairy which waves the magic wand! hahahahaha
Scotland will never be greater than England unless she accepts the achievements of England. From what I can tell from the Scotch dross on here, that will never happen either! Ha!
December 26th, 2008 at 6:15 pmProof Adrian, mere proof. Where is it? ;o)
Intellectually beaten? ;o) Eh?
For info Ade the good book has been translated into GAELIC and even into CYMRAEG [where the translation has helped save that beautiful language] – sorry about that old bean.
Hey – America founded itself by DENYING Britain, no? What was that bit about English freedoms creating the USA from one of your previous lunatic rants? Heh-eh!
No English during the time of the Romans? – noooooooooooo, get outa here Ade. Kind of where I was coming from, no? My baby daughter could have told me that old chap.
Adrian, I’m fascinated – no, stunned, by your insistence on ‘Gallic’. If it were to be used in any context it ‘might’ be used to tag the Gaulish tongue spoken by the Celtic tribes in France during the takeover by Rome.
Selective propaganda? LOL! Show me Adrian – show ALL OF US where ‘Gallic’ is used to describe Scottish Gaelic. Go on. I provided some pretty solid demonstration of ‘fact’ via the Sabhal link, as well as the Wiki entry – which is, alarmingly, all you seem to have responded to.
In case anyone is in any doubt, this is THE Scottish Gaelic college in Skye – Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. But Adrian says they are wrong too. LOL!
As you say Adrian, facts are facts regardless of what new ‘entities’ like to invent [where DID you learn English Adrian? It is truly appalling! Seems to be a characteristic of fanatics like yourself].
So, other than bouncing about salivating at the mouth saying, essentially, nothing at all – like the fringe maniac you are, you STILL didn’t enlighten us all RE: ‘Gallic’ versus ‘Gaelic’. Unless you can put up, thereby denying fact, and denying truth on this matter [from a Scot] – then I’d suggest you shut-up, and instead concentrate on improving your grammar.
Maybe that’s why your script burned? ;o)
December 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pmAdrian,
I do understand actors are often “resting”, but surely you could do panto or something more constructive instead of playing the buffoon on this website?
Or is your tirade “perfomance art”?
December 27th, 2008 at 1:11 pmParagraphs of Bunkum comes from North of the Border, where Art is non existant,
December 27th, 2008 at 9:46 pmwe know which one is dopey in the panto, give us twirl in yur wee skirt.
This Barnett Formula gets more bizarre by the minute, Mr regulator
Well I see Widow Twanky has joined the debate..
Did you get a new keyboard for Christmas? Your shift key doesn’t seem to be sticking on anymore.
All the best for 2009
December 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pmWell i doubt we will have any constuctive blogs in 2009, most have given up on this site, the crap sent down from over the border, quips are funny now & again,
December 28th, 2008 at 7:29 pmbut the continued moronic monologues……boring
Perhap Scotland being the third wealthiest region,within the UK this is all a smokescreen from the facts.
Happy New year to you,
I am English and proud of it, it never fails to amuse me why people from other countries feel the need to come on patriotic sites about England just to spout rubbish!!!!
All over Yule too, have you nothing better to do?
This site is about England and The English, for the English………
There is no need for all this quote this and statisic that….in very plain English…fuck off!
January 8th, 2009 at 2:48 amI concur dan. Isn’t Widow Twanky, Scottish, Dalriada? That would mean that YOU’VE joined the debate!
I have no idea why there are so many Scots on here jealously trying to take the piss out of our nationhood. Seems like THAT is the culture they dream of, but is it? It would make things a whole lot easier if the South and the East of Scotland recognised that they are actually English instead of falling for the old Celtic propaganda trick of wearing a kilt and eating haggis to prove that they are culturally and intellectually backwards. After all, Gallic was never spoken there and whiskey is Irish! What has Scotland got apart from half a nation of Englishmen masquarading as Scots! English was never spoken in the low lands EVER and still isn’t apart from by a few nutty Albas who the MacDonalds didn’t manage to massacre – or was it the Campbells! The Scots can’t even cull their own nutters so it looks like we’ll have to help them do it again like we did the last time!
You would have thought that caring parents would have strangled Alba at birth to make the Barnet Formula unnecessary! Wouldn’t the world be a lot more civilised without rough red-headed kerns jumping up and down and spitting blood at our partition wall! Alba! You’d be much better advised fighting for your own tiny croft against yer laird instead of initiating an unprovoked fight AGAINST our glorious and powerful nation. You can’t win! Give it up and join the human race. You won’t regret it!
January 20th, 2009 at 12:52 pmI thought this was the debating section for the ‘Barnett Forumula’! Not a space devoted to either English ‘knocking’ the Scots, or the Scots ‘knocking’ the English. So can we have an informed debate on the subject please? I understand the Barnett Formula is to be discussed by the present Government. Unfortunatly as this Government is composed of Scots, I don’t expect a fair result. Apart from that my only other comment is. It is time for the English to be given the same rights, and benefits as Scots, Welsh, and N Irish. That is the ability to Govern themselves in their own Parliament. Under the present system, as I see it, England has drawn the ’short straw’. We are viewed as just tax fodder, and not to be consulted, listened too, or even granted ‘rights’ existing elsewhere in the UK.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:49 amOk – the Barnett Formula .
Should the UK govt allocate funds equally to all parts of the UK ?
OR
do some parts of the UK need a higher proportion of funds than others ?
So how would you allocate the funds ?
You cant allocate the money to social security – because the rates of benefit are the same all over the UK. Likewise you cant allocate the funds to defence for obvious reasons or policing.
If you accept that some parts of the UK are different geographically and that costs will be higher if you are living in remote areas , how are you going to work it out? If you live in Durness ( check it on a map ) its going to cost a hellova lot more for medical services, schooling and council services that it would if you live in Dartford.
The question is .. is it fair ?
Ok so folk in Scotland get a little more than folk in London, well so do folk in the NE of England . How much .. well on average.. Under the Barnett formula, the English get an average of £7,121 per person per year, whereas in Scotland the sum is £8,623.
Thats about £1500 per year per head . Sounds pretty bad doesnt it .
Try and do the maths .. if we all got the same then would you be happy ? 60million people in the UK – 5 m of whom are living in Scotland .
pssst dont tell anyone but 16% of the population of Scotland are English .
I suspect that as long as someone is getting more than you are then you wont be happy ( this is of course a generic you ), but you do need some way of making it viable to live in rural or remote areas, and its going to cost more to provides services thats life .
Soar Alba – a Scot living In Suffolk.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:15 pmOh my god!
February 21st, 2009 at 12:45 pmThese blogs are generally ill-informed and illiterate! Like Vox Pops, blogs are an opportunity for people who know nothing about a subject to tell the rest of us what they don’t know, usually using horrendous spelling and grammar (and often no punctuation). I am often ashamed to be part of England, Scotland, Britain, or whatever.
Does anyone know about the “London Formula” where people who live in London get a higher wage than the rest of us? Is anyone ranting about it? Why not? Oh I know, it’s more expensive to live in London, etc. Heard it before. If you choose to live there why should the rest of us pay for it? And now we have the London Minimum Wage which is higher than for the rest of the country.
Then there’s the snippet of information already mentioned, that Scotland is “the third wealthiest region in the UK”. This must mean that more tax goes into the UK coffers from Scotland than from other regions.
Good job you’re in Wales then isn’t it?
February 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 amSarah Smith – in Wales? LOL!!
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 pmThis country, ENGLAND, is an occupied country, we do not have our own parliament, why not, when we have our own parliament, then we stand upright in this world, and stand proud to be ENGLISH
an English Man
Dexter Reed
March 29th, 2009 at 2:17 amEngland Expects
March 29th, 2009 at 2:19 amConcidering, the number of peoples who have either invaded or settled in Scotland, I find it a joke to read about Scottish purity of race as if they were some kind of Aryan people. All hail the master race! Decendants of the Christ! We English are soooo lucky to live nxt to them, NOT! Is the United States and Canada, wich is comepletely multicultural, countries? The answear is YES! So, why isn’t England a country? Because our enemies who are in power now, and our potential enemies, the europens, the masters of the western hemisphere, or so they think they are, decree it. Invaders of Scotland: Romans(and yes they did invade Scotland under emperor Agricola), Scandinavians, who settled in the highlands after conquering the natives. We gallant English(actually French/Normans at the time), who were and are still to this day, besiged by the Scots, which forced us to invade Scotland on numerous occasions. How did Scotland get its name? Invading Scottie tribes from Ireland. That Celtic heritage lives on to this day!
May 26th, 2009 at 12:25 pmAndrew Balmbra
Andrew,
I find your summary of early British History rather scant and your research does seems lacking. See me after, 3/10.
PS. Agrigola arrived in the Kingdom of Strathclyde (part of what is now Scotland), in AD82 for a look about, then went “Up North”, had a rough time with the locals at Mons Grappus and pissed off back into Northumbria in AD86. Where he set up a Trade account at Jewsonitis, brought a lot of Polish Auxiliaries over and built a big wall.
May 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pmThere you go, Irish-Scottie men in skirts of course………. well no stay-press’s
May 27th, 2009 at 8:01 amWessexman,
Of course.. It lets air to your tackle and the long grass tickles your fancy..
May 27th, 2009 at 8:51 pmWell… there’s an awful lot of childish ranting been going on here, hasn’t there…?! Could some of you use spell-checkers and grammar-checks before posting, please?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:39 amIt seems to me that Adrian Thurston is prime material for the next Bond villain – seeking to genetically transform the entire world’s population into Englishmen and women… bwahahahahahahaha! Brilliant, but completely bonkers. By the way, I’m English (whatever that means these days) and I was squirming with embarrassment at the unadulterated glorification of the English non-nation!!!
[...] The Barnett Formula [...]
July 13th, 2009 at 9:24 am[...] bonus for the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish budgets whether they need it or not thanks to the Barnett Bribe. The population of Scotland, Wales and NI is increasing at a fraction of the rate it is in [...]
July 13th, 2009 at 9:31 amEntertaining, but ill-informed (on both sides). And nothing to do with the Barnett Formula. Might I suggest that all off-topic postings be moved to a special section, perhaps named “Banter (not for the humour-impaired)”.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:24 pmCheck out what the Biased Broadcasting Corporation are reporting today on the matter:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8154374.stm
Don’t be fooled by the title into thinking that our esteemed Upper House has finally seen sense – read down a bit further and you’ll see that the recommendation is that the English taxpayers’ money which is currently being used to bolster the budget surplus of the so-called Scottish ‘government’ should instead go to Wales and Northern Ireland. It seems that we are to forever lose out in favour of our alleged Celtic ‘friends’.
Still, read down further and you’ll find that the British Government has no intention of replacing Barnett anyway. So it’s a lose-lose situation for us full stop.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:44 amtwo words SCOTTISH OIL
how much revenue does this make for the UK government and this isnt accounted for with in the formula because its seen as BRITTISH and neither scottish or english Scotland dosnt get back nearly as much as it puts in.
Love this site maybe if we hackle from both sides we’ll get our independance
September 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pmTwo words – ENGLISH OIL. How much of what the Scots claim as “oor oil” is actually our oil gifted to the Scots by the British government with no debate or consultation in conflict with international law on maritime borders under the Continental Shelf Act? Quite of a lot of it. Assuming we get an English government before the Scots declare independence, I would expect it to negotiate the repatriation of English oil and gas fields before you go.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:05 pmSurely we would be able to reappeal that particular injustice even if Scotland does become independent?
September 15th, 2009 at 2:36 pmGeorge, it can indeed be repealed now or after the Scots go but it’s a case of whether the British government has the political will and with the LibLabCon being part of the Scottish Raj, it’s not going to happen without a big change.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:53 pmRubbish – England has plenty of gas fields – no one disputes that. Scotland has some of the oil fields. That oil has been so far used for British needs to the detriment of Scotland .
This is probably a bad place to argue about who should get what. Much better to campaign for a parliament that strike up the same old argument. But if you want to ..
In 2008 London took £12.9 billion from Scotland in oil and gas
revenues, this equates to every single Scot giving away £2300 a year.
Scottish Oil is worth £22,831 a minute, £32 million a day, £12 billion a year.
Scotland gets NO Oil Revenues
Scotland could build 2 High Schools or 16 wind turbines or 300 stream turbines or 256 two bedroom house with a single day’s Scottish Oil revenue.
Oil is the UK’s Largest Industry landing, 700,000 barrels of oil per day.
The Union lost every Scottish resident £48,000 over the last 30 years.
Staying in the Union could cost every Scottish resident £234,000 each.
If you want an interesting read about Scotland – try this
http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf
from 1975 !
English parliament – good
Why on earth do you think that the UK govt wants to keep the union, is it ‘cos we are quaint ?
September 15th, 2009 at 5:31 pmMcFeagle.
A lot of the Oil fields in North sea were originally Englands, that was of course until 1964, when the U.K. governments changed the original borders without consent of the English people, this was done to prevent Scotland leaving the union with the ‘It’s our oil’ campaign, to put simply the oil which was given to Scotland was pretty much a bribe.
It was never truly Scotlands oil to begin with, in a manner of speaking it was stolen from England, your ‘revenues’ actually come from Stolen English oil. before hand the sea borders were in accordance with land borders.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:19 pmThis argument is pointless until such time as Scotland gains it’s independence and even then International law would prevail .. a quote from the UK cabinet office puts it into some perspective ..
“There might be some argument about where the boundary between English
and Scottish waters would lie. At present this is considered to be along the line of latitude which lies just north of Berwick on Tweed, and it might perhaps be held that it should run NE/SW as an extension of the Border. This could have the effect of transferring the small oilfields in the south, Auk and Argyll, to the English sector, but would not affect the main finds.”
Stolen English Oil .. I don’t think so .
This isn’t about oil – this thread was about the Barnett formula – which we all know is outdated and about an English parliament.
Regretfully some folk still think that England subsidises Scotland by a huge amount, however if you get past the emotive side of things and look at what Scotland contributes in terms of tax and oil revenue that just is not the case .
September 15th, 2009 at 9:05 pmI have a question, what is the revenue and expenditure of England Wonkotsane?
September 16th, 2009 at 1:56 pmDear god, why are there so many Scots in here? We all know you love your race and country, so get out of our lives! I mean seriously, why come here to stir up trouble? Seriously, Bugger off and claim independence, I really couldn’t care anymore. My whole family on both sides leads to Scotland, I taught myself Gaelic and I even play the bagpipes and i am an Englishman! But now, I am ashamed of having the history in me. I am so proud to be English, we have been through a lot and we still hold together underneath, even when we have no parliament or national identity thanks to the UK government. At the end of the day, we are two very different countries. But I would rather be English any day. We may have lost our culture and our identity, but hey at least we can qualify for the world cup! That’s something I would never trade!
September 27th, 2009 at 1:30 amHonestly some of the pish being spouted here is beyond belief.
London and the south-east get more than Scotland, but this area and Scotland are the two biggest contributers to the economy by far. The areas who miss out the most are the north east and west of England who in parts need more having similar rural areas(like Scotland and Wales) that costs far more just for basic infrastructure. The way the incomes are counted are seriously flawed towards the south east of England also, with many a company having it’s HQ’s there resulting in nationwide wages being put in the south east tally. Government departments also help to skew the counts. I’m sure if there was far more widespread departments like the DVLA Swansea or Social works in Newcastle etc we might get a fairer picture.
Are those of you going on about boundries for the oil realise where any proposed settlement in favour of England would leave said boundry? The answer is whizzing by Aberdeen, for the geoghraphically thick that would be Scotland asking for the boundry to be re-aligned to whizz by Norwich. If anything the boundries at present might even be in England’s favour, but I’m sure reasonable people could sort this.
Allied with around 90% of the oil perhaps 40 odd percent of the gas and not forgetting whiskey a top 5 earner for the treasury our wee nation will be aw’right Jack(or is that Jock?) on our own. At the moment we supply loads of water to England and in the future with vast wave energy at our disposal also electricity.
I would like to consider that I would rank as a temporary English nationalist until we all achieve our objections. my criticisms are obvious, quit the beligerence based on myths and at times lies against Scotland. Let’s learn to be friendly neighbours, our independence is not an abstract concept anymore.
Where any rump English(British) state will shed shitloads of money is in keeping alive the sectarian state over the water. Allowing the Orange state to run a two tier system for nigh on 50 years, the resultant inevitable conflict and now re-arranging the deckchairs with shared power costs plenty. Best hope there is that instead of the British secret services being criminaly culpable in murderous acts against Irishmen and women who only ever wanted the same as us, ie. their own nation. They would be better employed in actually aiding democracy for a change and smoothing the way for when the 50 plus 1 percent who wish for a united Ireland becomes a reality.
September 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pmWhat we need to do is find out who all these traitorous enemy within are in parliament and out them so us “sour little Englanders” can vote them out ASAP. I suggest David Cameron and Gordon Brown be the first and second on that list.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 pmYes. It does seem as if there are more Scots on here than English, which must be a fault of the administration. I mean healthy debate is one thing amongst those who sincerely wish to get the concept of an English Parliament clearly in our mind, but all this idiotic banter and arguing the toss with Scotts about nothing in particular is having a toxic and opposite effect upon what we truly intend.
Someone said above, that “someone” (possibly about me or about some others) that we were knocking the Scots! I can’t find any evidence of any malicious knocking of the Scots, BUT I can find plenty of evidence of the Scots maliciously knocking the English! Where’s the moderator to protect us EVEN online!? What are the CEP doing allowing this anti-English assault upon us right here on our own website and blogg?
Most of us may not dislike the Scots that much, but having more Scots on this blogg site than English is clearly subversive. What’s that about? I don’t think it adds to the argument for an English Parliament and I don’t think it encourages English people to want to discuss or debate anything constructive on here at all – especially while we’re being harranged by foreign idiots – when we should be arguing with each other about the pros and cons of differnet methods to achieve our national assembly. I haven’t even been able to say a single word about the Barnett Formula because of verbal assaults from these Scots.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:41 pmAdrian
ROFL!……….Honestly that was hilarious, you must be one of those ‘Jocks’ you clearly dislike so much trying to make the English look stupid and quite xenophobic into the bargain.
I support English independeance so much so, that if the guy above IS serious(honestly I am not sure) keep him away from a microphone or panphleteering duties. Better still give him the address of the English Defence league or BNP and tell him no tae let the door hit him oan the wiy oot!
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:29 pman English Parliament will follow in short order when the English Democrats Party secures a majority in the Westminster Parliament. that would be followed as quickly by England leaving the United Kingdom, since a federation in which one partner has 84% of the population cannot last. as soon as England departs the UK the question of what is England’s oil and what is Scotland’s oil (actually at that stage the UK’s oil, since the UK would then consist of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) is back on the table for negotiation.
The Young Wessex League
November 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm“Zeaxe; owre land and volc”
I’m an expat. I was released from duty after having served in the Army for 35 years. My Dad often asked when I would return home. My answer was invariably, when the English cause themselves to enjoy the same freedoms that other parts of the UK enjoy, when the English enjoy the same freedoms as I currently enjoy in my adopted home, the Slovak Republic.
One of the first things we need to do is have the political classes stop telling us lies. By act or ommision none of these people appear to want to lay the facts before all of us, so our decisions can be informed. Rhetoric is fine in its place, but the topic of the break up of the UK is far too important to be relegated to jingoistic breast beating.
As you may freely surmise, being an Anglo/Scot I count myself as British. My 35 years service should indicate my passion for a British Identity as I have seen it in action, working in concert and harmony for the benefit of many, in many different countries over many years. I am very proud of the Scots half of my heritage, wear my Kilt on Hogmanay and when walking in the Mts, BUT I am just as proud of my (it must be said) Predominately English upbringing. I support English Rugby and Cricket, think David Beckham one of the finest sporting ambasadors our shores have ever seen. My lovely wife of 30 years is half Welsh and one of my daughters was born in Armagh.
That all said, the one guiding influence throughout my life and service was to fight injusice wherever I found it. There is not a single doubt in my mind that the English have an absolute right to their own Parliament. Sadly, unless and until our politicians decide to come clean and lay the facts before us (both north and south of the border) we may well make the right decision for all the wrong reasons. The upshot of which will be neighbour countries living in enmity rather than harmony, in a mish mash of a federated state that no one is happy with.
I support the CEP, not from any jingoistic reason, but simply because it is just.
My English half, with a chagrined smile insists that I point out though, it is not too long until 2066. The English have come a long way since the Battle of Hastings. I will not be around to see it, but I know 2 things. First the party will last long into the night, and second; Adolf Hitler will be turning in his grave at the fact that a nation he tried for so long to crush, beat him to the 1,000 year punch.
Keep Smilin’
David
November 30th, 2009 at 9:41 am