The British-Irish Council has taken the bizarre step of granting Observer status to Cornwall.
Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Channel Island, the Republic of Ireland and the British government – and now Cornwall – are all represented on the British-Irish Council but England has no representation.
Up until now, the lack of representation for England on the British-Irish Council has simply been just one example of the institutional racial discrimination that the English are subjected to on a daily basis but with the granting of Observer status to one English county, it is now about undermining the integrity of our country.
The Cornish regionalists are naturally quite pleased that the British-Irish Council, following lobbying by the otherwise amusing “Celtic League”, has recognised them as a country but it simply is not acceptable to continue to racially discriminate against England whilst actively promoting the dismemberment of our country.
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Just rename the “British-Irish Council” the Celtic Council and remove all English representation – and that includes the “UK” representative seeing as the “UK” is not a country.
Then just ignore them just as they have done to us.
March 5th, 2010 at 8:18 amThis is really good news, it give England’s claim for a self determined parliament even stronger, the more they divide and discriminate the more we strengthen,
March 5th, 2010 at 9:25 amplus they need our money! We don’t need them.
Since there are doubts as to whether the “Celts” ever existed as currently portrayed I would say that this is just another attempt to stir up problems in the UK. Just as Irish music has morphed into “Celtic” music I wonder what tricks they will get up to next.
March 5th, 2010 at 11:32 amInteresting times ahead, as others have said, ignore them for now. Our campaign is getting more and more support as each day passes, so keep them coming, we can deal with this little problem later.
Reminds of this youtube video by the Simpsons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPnbwdYbrA
March 5th, 2010 at 12:04 pmdydh sen Pyran lowen. happy st Pirans day.
March 5th, 2010 at 12:21 pmnot quite sure why you insist on belittling the Cornish, who after all are a nation that like yours is underrepresented within the “United Kingdom”. We have a lot more in common than you think, and despite being a Cornish nationalist I agree with many of your aims, e.g. on the need for an Engish parliament and the campaign to make St Georges day a public holiday.
so I ask you this for everyone’s sake dont condemn us for wanting the same things you do or you may just lose our sympath.
If the people of Cornwall want independence, which I doubt very very much, then I have no problem with that although I think its madness.
March 5th, 2010 at 12:43 pmHowever it must be full independence and not some Mickey Mouse arrangement that gives them all the benefits of being linked to England. The NHS is an example.
No using English hospitals etc. They should provide their own facilities and pay for the costs. Oh and passports at the English border.
I guess the days when we could bully small countries has ended. Other ‘counties’ of England have names of Brythonic Welsh origins including Devon, Kent, Lincolnshire and Cumbria – maybe we can return to our Anglo-Celtic origins based on culture and civic nationalism, acknowledge that we committed genocide against our Celtic neighbours and abandon the Anglo-Saxon obsession of race and blood which came from the 1930 when Germanic peoples were seen as the master race. A new and better England with civic nationalism and an English Parliament
March 5th, 2010 at 12:45 pmIt seems to me that the Celts are the ones who are obsessed with race! Have the Irish apologised for their part in the genocide of the native American Indians?
March 5th, 2010 at 1:39 pmThe only “genocide” we have any historical records of in these Isles are the “Harrying of the North” when the Normans marched into the North of England, burning all the crops and killing all the livestock, men, women and children they could find. The English were the victims.
Although we do have historical records of a plannned genocide in the writings of a Welshman just prior to the Battle of Brunnanburgh around 937AD. He was exulting that the combined armies of Wales, Strathclyde, the Scots, the Dublin Vikings, etc. were going to destroy the English and drive all the English from these shores. In other words planned genocide and ethnic cleansing with the English as the intended victims.
The English on the other hand have never had this ridiculous obsession with race and blood that the “Celts” have. Even the term “Anglo-Saxon” is hyphenated, and in any event has always included Jutes, Danes, Romano-Britons and all the other peoples that comprise the English.
So all in all Steve, I am afraid that your comment simply doesn’t make any sense. The English have only ever done civic nationalism – the racist variety is primarily a British phenomenon, not English.
March 5th, 2010 at 1:57 pmWell said, David B Wildgoose.
Whilst we are on the subject, Seek and ye shall find.
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/
“The orthodox view of the origins of the Celts turns out to be an archaeological myth left over from the 19th century. Over the past 200 years, a myth has grown up of the Celts as a vast, culturally sophisticated but warlike people from central Europe, north of the Alps and the Danube, who invaded most of Europe, including the British Isles, during the iron age, around 300 BC.”
This whole thing is becoming very tedious. In the past the construction of a Celtic master race has been very quaint and entertaining but it’s time people took a step back and did some serious reading on this subject. I’m not talking about TV programs or books that take an extremely biased view on Vikings, Danes, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic view of our history, nor am I appealing to those who want to portray themselves as having a special lineage, they are beyond hope and are in need of psychiatric care, just as the Nazis were!
Here’s a start…
The Atlantic Celts, Ancient people or modern invention – Simon James.
The Celts. Origins, Myths, Inventions – John Collis.
The Origins of the British – Stephen Oppenheimer.
Another great source is Barry Cunliffe, particularly his later works.
Then, please go on to some of the more popular books if you want stories of brave, cultured people with golden whatnots.
I will come clean, I have French and Irish in my recent lineage so if the Celts are whom they say, then I may have a greater claim to them as ancestors than most. But, I know who I am and I am in no need of a crutch to justify my existence.
On the other hand if you want to revert to tribalism then just carry on as you are.
March 5th, 2010 at 2:29 pmI bet the Bill gets sent to the part with no representation.
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1340/mapbritishirishcouncile.jpg
March 5th, 2010 at 5:16 pmBloody Gaels and celts, they come along and steal our women and rape our sheep, us Picts were richt pished off with them.
Stupid isn’t it !
The issue isn’t about so called ancient sterotyping, it’s about representation of the existing nations that make up the British Isles, it seems to me that the British-Irish council have done some good work in the past and could have some potential to do some work in the future to repesent ALL of the people in the Isles, as far as I can see Cornwall is not represented on that council but have been invited to observe – not quite the same thing.
England, as an individual nation has no representation on that council but perhaps the council need to understand that if Wales, Ireland, IOM, Channel Isles, and Scotland are represented individually then the ‘British’ element should be renamed as the English represntative.
Perhaps the officals of the CEP could gently point that out to the council that without English representation that the British Irish Council is incomplete.
“The formal purpose of the Council as outlined in Strand Three of the Agreement is “…to promote the harmonious and mutually beneficial development of the totality of relationships among the peoples of these islands… the BIC will exchange information, discuss, consult and use best endeavours to reach agreement on co-operation on matters of mutual interest within the competence of the relevant Administrations“.
Its time that there was a body to represent England .
March 5th, 2010 at 9:32 pmSpot on McFeagle !
March 6th, 2010 at 8:02 amThere are four nations which comprise the British Isles (no offence meant to the Irish). Cornwall is not a nation and therefore has no special place. The Duchy was formed in 1337 and is part of the Crown estate and provides funding for the current Prince of Wales. The Duchy of Lancaster was formed at the same time but is not represented on the BIC as far as I know.
March 6th, 2010 at 9:25 amIf the people of Cornwall want independence then that is fine, all they need do is to spell out clearly and concisely to the people of Cornwall what the pros and cons are for such action. It will also be desirable to discuss with the people of England what the relationship, if any, will be between the two countries and indeed with the rest of the UK if it remains in existence. The people of England may disagree with what some Cornish people think and are entitled to be heard simply because Cornwall is part of England.
Unfortunately the politically motivated archaeologists and historians have had their own way for too long and if is time to dispel the cultural myths which have been so blatantly used as a means to create division.
So step one is to get an English parliament. Step two is that that parliament can then consider the functioning of all of the counties of England.
IMHO this is the best way to proceed and Cornwall will stand a better chance of getting their way (IF that is what they want). This move by the BIC may set back the aspirations of those who want a settlement in the UK and I’m pretty sure that that is the intention. But as has been mentioned, the entire structure of this council needs to be looked at and maybe it is not really fit for purpose.
Well the EU Elections provided 14,0000 Votes for the nationalists in Cornwall
and are standing in every constituency for the General election
The majority of people who live in cornwall do not consider themselves cornish and by birthright come from most counties/shires of England
will be interesting to see how they Vote and how the Natonalists who are really Regionalists perform because they will not want to stand in Westminster but Brussells if elected ?
England and an English Parliament will be helped if this trend continues,as the trend of an English lobby grows
Will the English Vote in numbers ?
Only then, when the time arrives they can remove the british govt from Westminister, the house of lords and told to go/find somewhere else, returning the Buildings back to the people of England
March 6th, 2010 at 10:12 amwho will reinstate an English Parliament with the right Politicians
Lets all agree that it’s totally undemocratic, as are most things in the United Kingdom toward the English but lets not keep telling each other about! START WRITING TO THE NATIONAL AND REGIONAL PAPERS ABOUT IT!
Which is exactly what I will do as soon as I finish this e-mail.
March 6th, 2010 at 2:33 pmFor those of you that didn’t know. The Royal Kilbrandon Report into the constitution recommended that Cornwall be referred to as a Duchy in view of its constitutional status.
If you are interested in this question then try reading this website: http://duchyofcornwall.eu/
Equally you could try Tyr Gwyr Gweryn: http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk/
Although incorrectly run as an English county, Kernow is anything but.
March 6th, 2010 at 2:45 pmCornwall is a duchy and a county, just like Lancaster. It’s not special or unique in being an English county and a duchy at the same time. Cornwall is not a country.
March 6th, 2010 at 2:58 pmIt’s my country and you’ll never be able to persuade me otherwise so what are you going to do? If you come to power I dread to think.
March 6th, 2010 at 3:33 pmWell think what you like, their’s more chance of a third world war than cornwall becoming a country
Re the Steve Oppenheimer’s Book on the Origins of English very logical and intertesting conclusion it is a fact that they have detected boundry walls and buildings beneath the English Channel no-doubt Doggerland has evidence aswell and the DNA is a deciding factor
March 6th, 2010 at 4:34 pmEastern England in time will produce even more facts and figures in time
I just despair of English nationalism sometimes, we need to take back English nationalsim from the far-right and the anti-Scottish, anti-Welsh, and anti-Cornish elements. I want a progressive, inclusive England! Oppenheimer’s book is interesting as history though I think studies of genetics are dangerous, after all look what happened with the obsession with German racial origins in the 1930s!
March 6th, 2010 at 5:13 pmBut Cornwall already is a Country with its own constitution and a head of state different from yours. Equally we have our own lesser used language which is making a bit of a come back.
March 6th, 2010 at 5:46 pmThe constitutional arguments for our non-english legal status can all be found here: http://cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk//resources//article.php?story=20090511171205687
March 6th, 2010 at 6:10 pmSteve, over reaction lol, read the book before you make rash statements
March 6th, 2010 at 7:23 pmthis is about the English being here over 1000 years earlier than recorded history this is not slating anyone or one-up-manship
We need to share what has been uncovered scientific genetics
Everyone is entitled to voice their feelings and beliefs Nationalism is rife in Scotland Ireland Wales and Cornwall………. Now England
Equality for all ! forget the far right ! be positive
All are seeking self determination.
Philip, we won’t ever come to power because we’re not a political party. Cornwall isn’t a country, it doesn’t have its own constitution and it doesn’t have its own head of state. The Duke of Cornwall – Prince Charles – isn’t head of state of Cornwall because Cornwall isn’t a state, it’s a county. Lancaster is also a duchy but it’s nothing more than an English county, the same as Cornwall. The Cornish language is a debate all by itself – it died out and is being made up as the revivalists go along based on what researchers think are the rules of the language.
Steve, give it a rest, eh? English nationalism has never belonged to the far right, it doesn’t need taking back. The CEP isn’t interested in ethnicity and is only concerned with civic nationalism. Read our policies if you want confirmation.
March 6th, 2010 at 7:26 pmJust answering the anti-Cornish remarks on this blog. I don’t want English nationalism to be associated with such remarks, do you? I want self-determination for England based on what English people want, it seems hypocritical to deny the same to Cornwall and the other countries of the UK.
I just worry about the English Defence League, the British National Party and other organizations who are quick to fly the English flag – we need a response to them or we can stick our heads in the sand.
Strangely enough England, Scotland and Wales do not have a constitution or a head of state either, only the UK! Strange but true.
March 7th, 2010 at 7:06 amwhatever
March 7th, 2010 at 8:10 amSo assuming Cornwall becomes an independent country. What form would it take. For instance,
Taxation,
Health service,
Education,
Transport,
Foreign relations,
Defence.
Then the EU, What about England leaving the EU, would Cornwall remain? Assuming England leave the EU and the other countries remain, how would you propose to deal with the foreign relations issues between England and Cornwall? Would you want to set up border controls? What about property ownership, how would you deal with this issue? Would you prevent the English from owning property in Cornwall?
March 7th, 2010 at 9:35 amWhat about the present status as a non sovereign Duchy, would you want it to cease. Would you want the Queen as a head of state?
Unfortunately, Steve’s comments do have to be taken seriously, The English Defence League revel in displaying our flag and looking for trouble. At the time that the Islamic Extremist group were talking about marching in Wootton Bassett’s High Street, so were the ‘English Defence League’. I know from personal experience that they come from all over the UK. It doesn’t matter to the majority of people, if they see these lunatics in action, they will condemn the flag!
March 7th, 2010 at 12:37 pmA couple of further points.
It is true to say that England does not have a codified constitution. However, England does have a constitution which is a bit more complex. The Bill of Rights Act 1689 is a good starting point but also Magna Carta should be considered.
Anti Cornish comments. If they appear here I can’t find them. There are comments about independence but that is a different argument. As far as anti Scottish/Welsh goes I would say that comments written over many years past have been decidedly Anti English. What’s new is that the English who have generally accepted the idea of Britishness are now waking up to that fact and are reacting.
The Union as we know it is virtually dead so we can all move forward and find a solution or we can, as the politicians are doing, bury our heads in the sand and watch a gradual decline into what can be described as tribalism. I would like to see the former but at the end of the day I don’t think people are going to sit on their hands any longer.
So come on Cornwall, tell us what you want, you never know… But you do need to tell the English because Cornwall, like it or not, is part of England.
March 7th, 2010 at 1:16 pmWhy should anyone worry about the EDL the BNP we are not here to worry about them or any other groups.
March 7th, 2010 at 3:17 pmwhy waste time on them ,spend your time on supporting England and the cause for a English Parliament,lobby your MP,even stand against him as a English Independent before its too bloody late, worrying does nothing but put you on the back foot,give you ulcers lol.
you wont stop them, by worrying anyway they will just laugh at you, for being so naive
just remember the BNP got nearly a million votes in the EU election
a million worry’s there lol.
Steve, what are these ‘anti Cornish remarks’ to which you refer?
March 7th, 2010 at 3:53 pmCornwall is a beautiful part of Celtic Britain, it needs support in the fight for Celtic freedom from Anglo-Saxon oppression which calls Cornish heritage “English” and attempts to destroy Celtic unity for the sake of imperialism and oppression of minority indigenous peoples of Britain.
Basically the so called “
March 7th, 2010 at 4:50 pmWhoops I sent that by mistake. It was meant as tongue in cheek. But I’m sure some people really think in that sort of way, which is a bit scary to me – how ones sense of reality can become so warped.
March 7th, 2010 at 4:52 pmWhat exactly defines ‘Celtic’ nowadays? because there are so many different personal opinions, it’s impossible to make an accurate representation. Does it mean language? If so that’s a minor issue, considering the number of people who speak it. Does it mean genetics? In which case they may as well include England as ‘Celtic’ seeing how 75% of English DNA (on national average) is traced to pre-Saxon invasion, in some area’s of England, the concentration of these genes succeeds that of even Scotland! Does it mean culture? In which case, what do we identify as uniquely ‘Celtic’ in comparison to the rest of the world?
The only accurate way of defining ‘Celtic’ is that of language.
March 8th, 2010 at 2:00 pmI don’t mind nostalgic sentimentalism (‘Celtic’ or any other variety), but attach it to politics and it smells like the fish it is.
March 8th, 2010 at 6:49 pmJust had a look at the previous entries on this thread and its amazing how many of the majority of posters claim Cornwall is too small, how can it fund its NHS, its Defence, who could vote in Cornwall, we have shared history, nobody speaks Cornish these days, it isnt Celtic even if we knew what that was etc, etc..
But from Cornwalls perspective it is not too small.
Does it actually want Trident and a bit of an Aircraft carrier? Who is planning to invade it apart from tourists and caravans?
A bit of wind power and off shore generation and it doesnt really need a nuclear power station either.
Isle of Man seem to tick along and I think its maybe even smaller.
Anyway, good on you Cornwall, nice flag as well, just you ramp up the price of pasties and sod the lot of them.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:34 pmthe campaign for an english parliament is going nowhere fast
nice history lesson but incase you all forgot the year is 2010,
March 9th, 2010 at 2:38 pmThe English are such hypocrites, all over this site your banging on about having enough of Britain not feeling British and being underrepresented by the so called uk government. So when Cornish people argue for exactly the same things as you do, do you take common cause no quite the opposite. I was under the illusion that this form of English nationalism was based upon real greivance but now I see that you merely are throwing your toys out of the pram because you can no longer boss the people of these islands around. I see now that English nationalism is based on nothing more than right -wing hatred and a yearning for the glory days of empire.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:33 amCornwall is poorer than Albania, it had negligible industry, negligible economy and receives level 1 EU funding which is (mostly Dutch and English) money that the EU hands out to areas that are so poor they need the sub-national equivalent of international aid to cover the basics. An independent Cornwall would be the poorest country in Europe, reliant on international aid for the foreseeable future.
Treeve, what leads you to think that English nationalism is about right wing hatred and yearning for the glory days of the empire? Is it because you’re a Cornish nationalist and “culturalist”? You do know the English empire was taken over by the British over 3 centuries ago don’t you?
March 10th, 2010 at 7:23 amBizarre to me that the only case that can be made for Cornwall’s continuing union is that we are the poorest region of the UK, seriously your not really selling the benefits very well. With such a bad economy what do we have to lose. If we stay in this union then we can only look forward to more poverty we need a change before we become one massive holiday park for the saxons.
March 10th, 2010 at 11:34 amTreeve, you consider that “…English nationalism is based on nothing more than right-wing hatred and a yearning for the glory days of empire”. This interests me.
It appaears that you are conflating ‘English nationalism’ with the case for an English Parliament, which itself is questionable. However local governance is developed within England is a matter for an English Parliament.
The future of Cornwall, Devon, Hampshire, Kent etc. is a matter which should be considered within the context of England, not England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (ie. the whole UK). Every locality within England has its own local history and people can and do have local, national and broader identities simultaineously.
Cornwall has an interesting local history of its own. Even so, ethnic nationalism is an ugly thing (the world is full of examples of why)and this ugliness is not diminished by smaller population sizes. Turning local history into a basis for ethic nationalism for political ends is distasteful at best.
I wonder if the Scottish Parliament would want any say if a decision was made by the UK Government to give further devolution to the Shetlands?
My sense is that the Scottish Government would argue, perhaps quite rightly, that devolution to the Shetlands is a matter for Scotland not the UK. Likewise, further devolution to any part of England, including cornwall, needs to begin with an English Parliament.
What do the non-English Celts think?
March 10th, 2010 at 11:38 amDalraida you say that “Just had a look at the previous entries on this thread and its amazing how many of the majority of posters claim Cornwall is too small…………
But from Cornwalls perspective it is not too small”.
I don’t object if the people of Cornwall want independence. That’s up to them. However it must be independence and not some form of association with England which enables Cornwall to use English resources such as hospitals/GPs/schools etc. when it suits!
Wales have been doing this ,using English hospitals/GPs etc. and it should stop.
I believe England should set up border controls with an independent Cornwall, as with any other foreign country, and if England should leave the EU then Cornish people who want to work in England will have to apply for a work permit!
March 10th, 2010 at 12:27 pmthe campaign for an english parliament is going nowhere fast
15 blogs on the battle bus and only 10 comments
1 blog about celts 43 comments………………you lot work it out?
wonkotsane”
An independent Cornwall would be the poorest country in Europe, …..in europe there will always be a poorest country just as in the world there will always be a poorest country..
Comment by “Derek”
I believe England should set up border controls with an independent Cornwall, as with any other foreign country, and if England should leave the EU then Cornish people who want to work in England will have to apply for a work permit!
what a great neighbour you would make derek
you dont have to convince us celts you need a parliment its the english people
March 10th, 2010 at 2:25 pmClyde, the majority of English people want an English Parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6264823.stm
Unfortunately that doesn’t suit the agenda of Unionist politicans so they refuse to even discuss it. To the contrary they make totally unsubstantiated statements such as ‘there is no appetite for an English Parliament’!
All I am saying Clyde is that any break with England should be clean and complete. No ‘special relationship’. Clearly our two nations might enter into trade agreements such as the EU or EFTA, but that should be all.
I want an independent England with or without Cornwall. I would prefer Cornwall to remain part of England. However if the majority of Cornish people think otherwise then so be it.
I’m not trying to convince you Celts of anything. I’m just pointing out that independence should be what it says on the label and not some sort of half way house arrangement. The independent Celtic nations might want to enter into some sort of Celtic Alliance but that is up to them and certainly nothing to do with England.
Why shouldn’t England have border controls with an independent Cornwall? I don’t understand why do you would have a problem with that?
March 10th, 2010 at 4:42 pmI think the days when border controls are possible are over. I am sure that any relationship between England and the Celtic nations will be similar to that between England and Ireland, where a passport is not required to travel between the two countries. Any attempt to cut ourselves off from other countries would be an obvious disaster and would only encourage narrow-minded and parochial sentiments. And we don’t want any more of those!
March 10th, 2010 at 6:32 pmYes, ethnic nationalism is a horrible thing. That is why I hope for civic nationalism and that England doesn’t become another Serbia, bullying its smaller neighbours as Serbia did in the Balkans. What worries me is the undercurrent of anti-Celtic sentiment, even denying the existence of Celtic languages and culture. I do not think that is the way to get on with our Celtic neighbours, by ridiculing them and belittling their existence. I want a better England than that, one based on civic nationalism not Celtophobia or we are doomed to be the Serbia of the UK.
March 10th, 2010 at 6:36 pm“Yes, ethnic nationalism is a horrible thing. That is why I hope for civic nationalism and that England doesn’t become another Serbia, bullying its smaller neighbours as Serbia did in the Balkans. What worries me is the undercurrent of anti-Celtic sentiment, even denying the existence of Celtic languages and culture. I do not think that is the way to get on with our Celtic neighbours, by ridiculing them and belittling their existence. I want a better England than that, one based on civic nationalism not Celtophobia or we are doomed to be the Serbia of the UK.”
You want an England where the English get told that they’re scum and uniquely racist whilst everyone else however obnoxious gets a free pass. Fear not Steve you already have that. You just need to campaign preserve the status quo then you can continue to wring your hands all you want and treat your countrymen and women with the contempt you feel we so richly deserve.
March 10th, 2010 at 7:11 pmThere was nothing anti Celtic about my post Steve. However if the Scottish Welsh or Cornish want independence that’s what they should get. Why shouldn’t they be asked to show their passports? I can’t come into England from France without showing my passport so why should I be able to come into England from an independent Scotland Wales or Cornwall without showing my passport?
March 10th, 2010 at 7:26 pmHow is that ‘cutting ourselves off from other countries’?
Millions of people travel to Europe every year and they have to show a passport on returning to England. Visitors from other countries have to show a passport when entering England, so why should visitors from an independent Scotland Wales or Cornwall expect any special treatment? I’m sure they don’t.
All I am saying Clyde is that any break with England should be clean and complete.
steve,its britain scotland wants to break away from,so the unionist politicans refuse to discuss it …. we scots have been telling you that for years.
Ive been on here before to let you know all the rubbish unionists will say to keep the union
maybe we could offer advice ..because do you know what there aint much difference between the people of scotland and england,
its up to the people of england ,are you english or british, its the english people who fly the union jack..sing rule britania
anyway nearly 50 posts now …what about the BUS
March 10th, 2010 at 8:08 pmAll I can say about the bus is that it is a great thing. There is no debate about that, no more to say than thanks and congratulations. With that there is no argument and no question.
There is, however, a debate here. And such a forum as this helps to clarify some of the potential issues and questions raised by the media and population at large. Statements such as “But what about Cornwall?” might be asked by journalists etc. and it is a forum such as this in which those issues can be discussed and considered in a meaningful and appropriate way.
The important thing is not to get too distracted by side issues. The governance of England (including Cornwall) is a matter which should start with an English Parliament. nuff said.
March 10th, 2010 at 10:44 pm… and look on the bright side; at least a small part of England (even if only one county) is now represented in the British-Irish Council.
March 10th, 2010 at 10:49 pmI agree with Bobby Boyce (post 10) and George Ireland(post 35). All this talk about Celts makes me uncomfortable. It is meaningless to talk about the term Celtic other than as a language and the culture associated with that language. There was almost certainly never a people called the Celts. Despite being a Scot of Highland extraction, I would never describe myself as a Celt since I do not speak the Gaelic. Also, the language of Lowland Scotland, the language of the latter Scottish Kings and Court and the language of Robert Burns is derived from the Angles of Northumbria which was Germanic, not Celtic. It is therefore wrong to describe Scotland as a Celtic country.
As far as genetics are concerned, the English and Scots are virtually identical (Oppenheimer). I have had my DNA analysed and the only definite thing that can be said about me is that my ancestors spent the last Ice Age in Spain. My haplogroup is fairly evenly distributed around the British Isles which suggests my ancestors arrived on these shores when the ice sheets retreated around 14,000 years ago, long before these entities called Scotland, England and Wales ever existed.
March 10th, 2010 at 11:30 pmI also agree with Dave – as I said at the beginning of my first post – Celtic is a language and a culture and should be recognized as such. I am sure that is why Cornwall wants some autonomy and self-government as England has done little to cherish that Celtic heritage (and seems to be in major denial about its own Celtic heritage). For a language and a culture that spanned most of Europe, I think it would be far better then the obsession with Germanic Anglo-Saxon blood and race ideas that seem more appropriate for the 1930s. So really there is no excuse for Celtophobia or the belittling of the Celts, after all the Anglo-Saxons are not a race, and the term Anglo-Saxon was created in the 19th century to describe common affinity with our colonies in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
March 11th, 2010 at 8:36 amSome of these latter messages are unbelievable! I don’t see anti Celtic/Scottish/Welsh views in the England where I live but I do want equality as a democratic right, why should England be the only nation state which doesn’t have it’s own Parliament/Assembly?
If you want outrageous racism, I suggest that you follow the comments that apprear about the ENGLISH after any political debate in The Scotsman or Scotland on Sunday. As for the comments of Treeve about Saxons, it only proves me right, get a life Treeve
March 11th, 2010 at 2:20 pmWhy has my message not been published? There are numerous ones following it.
March 11th, 2010 at 6:36 pmStuart,
I think the Scotsman newspaper (or as it is ridiculed in Scotland – the “Hootsman”) is one of the worst examples – the other being the Herald, of blatent Unionist press in Scotland. Their circulation is dropping like a stone so hopefully (but a pity for Scotland), they wont be about for much longer.
For a balanced view and more sensible reporting and comments! Try the Caledonian Mercury.
March 11th, 2010 at 9:44 pmOther comments didn’t need approving because the commenters have pre-approved comments. It does tell you you might have to wait for your comment to be approved before you post it!
March 12th, 2010 at 7:24 amWHY ARE WE BEGGING FOR OUR RIGHT,I AM FED UP OF ALL THE CRAP BEING TALKED,IT IS QUITE SIMPLE
March 12th, 2010 at 2:15 pmWE SHOULD DEMAND OUR RIGHT TO OUR OWN PARLIAMENT,BUT THE ENGLISHMAN/WOMEN HAVE WAITED UNTIL WE HAVE BEEN ASSIMILATED INTO THE BRITISH WORLD OF THE POLITICAL SCUM WHO CALL THEMSELVES
THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT BUT HAVE NOT BEEN ANY MORE THAN A SCOTTISH CLAN LOOKING AFTER THEIR OWN INTERESTS.(NO BAD FEELINGS TO THE NORMAL SCOTTISH FOLK) ITS JUST THE WHOLE CLAN OF POLITICIANS ON YOUR SIDE AND OURS,BUT ONE THING I WILL SAY TO MR SALLMOND,(I DARE YOU TO ASK THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE NEXT WEEK IF THEY WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT,THEN CALL YOUR REFERENDUM AND LETS GET IT OVER SHALL WE.
AND LET US NOT BE SO MEEK,DEMAND AND DON’T BEG,FOR OUR ENGLISH PARLIAMENT.
It seems from the amount of time spent talking about the ever popular Cornish nationalism only goes to show that this so-called “English devolution” movement is merely a reaction to Celtic nationalism. Thats fair enough if you want to go on belittling your neighbours and trying to convinvce us that your culture etc is superior to ours carry on, we’ve had it for years and are still here. However if you really want to push for your own devolution then you need to focus on something more than hatred and envy of your neighbours. What this campaign really needs to do is focus on the positive aspects of an English parliament and not just whinge about the Celts.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:17 pmTreeve, you may have a point. Or perhaps conversely, celtic nationalism is a counter-cultural reaction to the percieved dominance of Englishness within ‘British’ culture – either way, who cares?
For proper democracy and devolution for England, challenging peoples romantic ideas of ethnic celtic nationhood is indeed a red herring. It’s important not to get distracted by such issues.
Just as the Scottish Government would be likely to argue that devolution to the Shetlands is a matter for Scotland not the UK, it remains clear that the governance of England (including Cornwall) is a matter which should start with an English Parliament.
As I’m sure everone realises, England isn’t going anywhere no matter who joins the British-Irish Council. I’m sure the English, Irish etc. can get along just as well with or without such councils anyway, so lets all relax and let the British-Irish Council enjoy themselves.
March 12th, 2010 at 7:45 pm“What this campaign really needs to do is focus on the positive aspects of an English parliament and not just whinge about the Celts”
… said a winging Celt, whining about England.
Every now and again, some swivel eyed, hate filled bigots come onto these boards spewing their anglophobic bile.
Please everyone: STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!
March 13th, 2010 at 8:50 amI couldn’t agree more with Terry (62), except the last sentence, the sort of Comment from “Lion of England” (59)will only be used as an example of our views-comments like crap and scum, surely should not be allowed on these pages!
Thank you Dalriada (57) for you kind elucidation, I take it then that Scotland on Sunday is also failing fast?
Surely, we are better than the people who constanley call us Little Englanders because they actually lose the argument we we speak moderately!
March 14th, 2010 at 8:35 amStuart,
Scotland on Sunday seems to be holding up a bit better and often has a bit less anti SNP (at all costs) reporting.
But as for the “Hootsmon” and the Herald it is staunch anti SNP regardless. Which is a great pity, as we need to report on all aspects of Scottish politics (good and bad), from all parties, even pressure groups like the Tories.
Sorry, I meant to say the Scottish Conservative and Unionst party, jings what am I like!..
March 14th, 2010 at 8:32 pmHmmmm… the popularity of the “Hootsman”, the Hearld and Scotland on Sunday… this thread has officially become boring and irrelevant.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:04 pmJust a note on the lack of discussion on the website about the Battlebus tour – if you put your money where your mouth is and join the CEP you can join in the discussions we’ve been seeing on the CEP’s email group since the tour started.
March 16th, 2010 at 7:35 amForgive my lack of knowledge on this but could the Cornish, Welsh, Scots and Irish sit together and have a conversation in their respective ancient languages?
March 18th, 2010 at 12:03 pmCha bhi dà mhìos eile, agus bidh e seachad, bidh sinn an dòchas. Bidh na bhòtaichean air an cunntadh agus Gordon Brown no Daibhidh Camshron a’ cur riaghaltais ùir ri arsehole.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:20 pmAh, the sign of a dead long-dead language – you need to use Anglo Saxon swearwords.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:23 pmarse
March 18th, 2010 at 10:28 pmTime to call an end now I think people have run out of useful comment don’t you Matt?
March 19th, 2010 at 7:20 amse wisa wer timbrode his hus ofer stan, se desiga wer timbrode his hus ofer etc etc etc. I don’t need to swear. I prefer to rely on the strength of argument and reasoned debate.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:05 amWell it really was a question I knew the answer to. and that is they were unintelligible to each other, they were not mutually aware and the whole thing is cloud cuckoo land.
As one man put it in his book on celtic mythology “Thus in the groves of academe do the blind trustingly follow the purblind.”
Swear as much as you like, you will be ignored.
Ahem fair scunnered wi yon keech, best tae speir yer ane laide.
Lallans or Doric – East Coast Scots – not gaelic/celtic – Germanic Norse based language, close to olde anglishe .
Not all scots are celts !
March 19th, 2010 at 7:45 pmWhilst we’re on the topic, strangely enough ‘Cnut the Great’ is not swearing, but rather the name of a King of England. Not such a popluar name today though is it?
March 19th, 2010 at 7:53 pmA nice wabsteid
http://www.lallans.co.uk/
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:49 amI hope we can have a new England that no longer as a reputation for bullying the smaller countries of these isles – including Cornwall if she wishes to be separate! It is only fair and right!
March 24th, 2010 at 12:23 pm