STV, the Scottish ITV channel, is reporting that only a third of Scots want to build a new road bridge to replace the existing Forth Road Bridge.
The cost of building a new bridge is estimated at between £3.25bn and £4.22bn, whilst the cost of repairing the existing bridge is estimated at about £122m. The Scottish government intends to pay for a new bridge with the Scottish Futures Fund, a Scottish variety of PFI which is funded from the Scottish block grant, a big portion of which comes from the Barnett bribe which the English taxpayer pays for.
So if most Scots don’t want to spend billions on a new bridge, do you think they might give us our money back?
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See, this is petty. I think an English Parliament makes sense, and we’re trying to stop the SNP wasting taxpayers’ money (whichever taxpayers).
However, you’ve made it divisive, and you don’t make any sense. For now, taxpayers north of the border pay into the same pot, and fund English, Welsh & Northern Irish projects. The reality is that this bridge will come at the expense of public transport and other more sensible capital expenditure in Scotland.
I recommend trying to work with those Scots who want Scotland to move away from the current model, rather than descending to petty Jock-bashing.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:36 pmTaxpayers north of the border don’t pay net tax, Scotland is subsidised by England. So is the rest of the UK. How the Scottish government spends its money is none of our business south of the border but how much of our money is sent up north for the Scottish government to spend is. Surely the whole point of devolution is that we are divided?
November 8th, 2009 at 8:20 pmFair point, but what about the figures from the Scottish treasury that say Scotland had a 2.3 billion pound surplus last year?. If this is coming out of the block grant then surely spending the money as we please is perfectly acceptable because we are not going over the grant?
And no, you do not subsidise us.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:25 pmWe’ve debated the figures put out by the Scottish Treasury and Scottish government (the ones in Edinburgh, not the ones in Westminster) ad infinitum and will no doubt continue to do so until Scotland has finally gone its own way and there’s no way of covering up the budget deficit. You can either believe the figures of a Scottish government that has a vested interest in convincing you that Scotland can afford to go it alone or you can believe the figures of people who really don’t care what you do with your own country as long as your politicians leave us to run our own affairs!
November 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pmSo you’re saying that the data freely available on the Scottish website is all made up by the SNP in order to lure the Scottish public into a false sense of security in order to increase support for a Scottish independence movement?
November 8th, 2009 at 8:44 pmSo you’re saying that the data freely available on the British Treasury website is all made up by the Scottish mafia in order to lure the Scottish public into a false sense of dependency to decrease support for the Scottish independence movement? The figures from the British Treasury are on this website in the England Disadvantaged section.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:58 pmHowever, I will not be too hasty – the budget does indeed only state those figures as part of the North Sea oil revenue, and England does indeed have a claim on North Sea oil (even if they do not at present control it now).
Assuming there was a re-shift in the sea borders, the revenues and budget surplusses could be debatable. The SNP only care about wealth and dominantly oil, if Scotland were to go independent, they would still have to negotiate sea borders – in which case their entire campaign would have gone to waste.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:02 pmO.K. I am well aware of higher public spending, but that is only idenitifiable spending, England has the Olympics, the Crossrail, the WCML etc.. all these things add up, of course, they may not benefit the entire country of England, but they add up to the finincial deficit England is currently in, admittedly it’s gotten much worse with the reccession, but where do you think the 100 billion for Trident is going to come from (That would be a U.K. expense) – well the only country that can afford it – England, meaning England will have to have lower spending anyway because Westminster wants to waste it on Nuclear weapons they will never use.
November 8th, 2009 at 9:19 pmwhy do we always descend into this type of arguments when we point out the real outcomes of the unfair devolution.
You may pay into the pot, but there are only approx 5 million of you, and there are 50 million plus of us – so it is logical and realistic that we pay more into the pot than you do.
And don’t start whinging about Oil or I’ll get the 1966 map out and show you where the oil fields actually lie – that was pushed through parliament against the wishes of the English MP’s at the insistence of the Scottish Office.
Let’s focus on what is important – You want to leave the UK and we want you to leave – surely we have that in common at least.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:56 am“Assuming there was a re-shift in the sea borders,”
yes Andrew , that is a safe assumption.
When Scotland has to negotiate with the English, as opposed to the British, one can assume that the process will be a lot more forthright and robust. Probably a refreshing change for both parties. It must be so dismally boring for you Scots to have to go through the same contemptuous process yet once again to knock over the British government with the same old threats and biased assumtions, but then again, I don’t suppose they even argue nowadays.
It is likely that relations between an English government and a Scottish government will, after the initial bruising shock to the bravehearts in Scotland, though not to the rest, settle down to a much healthier and more fruitful level.
I am sure there is a lot we can do together to our mutual benefits though the basis of negotiation will be be bereft of the ghastly blackmail and racist and nationalist pressure to which you know the British governemnt, though not the English, is a compliant conspiritor and victim.
It will be whole new world and a refreshing one for both of us.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:35 pmBack to the headline..
If its read, the question posed by the Greens etc was.
It asked people if they backed a new bridge at a cost of £2.3billion – or replacing the current one at a cost of £122million. I think the STV article should have said “repairing” rather than “replacing”
Now just what would your answer be?
That explains why the headline says 2 thirds didnt want a new bridge (the assumption being that the old one can indeed be repaired).
When the Greens can explain how to repair tens of thousands of individual steel cables that support the bridge before it is forced to go out of use through weakness, I will accept their argument.
Usual guff about “bribes” I see Wonkotsake
November 11th, 2009 at 7:19 pmIf you read the article on the STV website and do a wee bit of research, it soon becomes apparent that this is a piece of bickering between the Greens – who are are based in Glasgow getting upset that the Scot Govt dropped the Glasgow airport link but are pursuing the new Forth crossing. ie – the Scot Govt are choosing which transport scheme to go along with rather than trying for both. Patrick Harvie – Green MSP being a Glasgow MSP .
There is a constant undertone in the Scot Parliament between East and West MSPs.
The issues on here however are not really about the Forth bridge at all, more like the Scots are spending English money. This seems to be a consistent thread on the site and frankly as a Scot its all a bit tedious and counter productive.
As someone living and paying tax in England I’d be happier if the Barnett formula was balanced properly. I would be even happier if England had its independence, but Im sure that the whining about Scots would still go on.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:38 pmI have to agree with less excitable comments, this is degenerating to a school playground argument!
The simple fact is that I as an English man wants equality for England with the other Countries of the UK – Our own Govenment.
It depresses me to see these petty arguments, how the Scots actually spend the money already allocated to them really is their business!
November 12th, 2009 at 7:08 amOnly if you give us the oil money back! Scotland – the only country in the world to have oil in its territory and get poorer!
December 15th, 2009 at 10:49 pmInteresting Bob… Scotland is also the only country to have 8000 miles of oil territory given to it.
And who exactly is going to give it ‘back’?
December 16th, 2009 at 12:40 pm