Comments on: I pledge my allegiance …

By: britologywatch

britologywatch — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:55:21 +0000

I agree with you, WessexMan. I support the monarchy (they’re Kings and Queens of England, after all) and the establishment of the Church (of England). While these institutions are still in place, then at least there’s some official recognition of England as being at the heart of the UK and as the nation that actually holds it together. If we moved to a federal UK or an independent England, then that could be the time to revisit these institutions; because then the English nation wouldn’t need those symbols to guarantee its existence.

By: WessexMan

WessexMan — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:57:47 +0000

This British = English thing incorperates several issues as previously pointed out, one of the devisive elements is not
swearing allegiance to the Queen of England/UK. We know there are certain groups indeviduals that refuse to Swear, if you want to become a member of Parliament, you must take the oath. The lack or refusal of swearing the oath, gives out the signal no-one cares or wants the Royals hence not popular! get rid of the royal family & its institution, another English foundation is threatened ! you may not agree, but i see devisivness & deceit…. one of the reasoning i support the Monachy

By: WessexMan

WessexMan — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:34:22 +0000

Well Said ! SPOT ON!

By: britologywatch

britologywatch — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:34:05 +0000

I agree with Dougthedug that there is a complete disconnect between all this official talk about British nationality and citizenship, and the debate about separate identities and political representation for the different nations of the UK. That’s why the former camp can’t even mention England, because once you start conceiving of England as a distinct entity from Britain, then the whole Britishness thing is in danger of collapsing like a house of cards. Why? Because it is essentially a vehicle through which the government is trying to channel the English quest to redefine their national identity, value system and political future – relying on the identification many English people still make between Englishness and Britishness. Of course, it’s also a means for the political establishment to try to hold on to their power base: hoping people won’t notice the difference between English laws and policies, and UK ones; so they won’t realise the lawmakers are democratically unaccountable.

Once people realise that the old identification between England and Britain is no longer adjusted to the reality on the ground (all the nations of the UK seeking to define their own paths) or the political realities (England as the only UK nation without democratic representation for its own affairs), then they’ll realise the futility of all the Britishness malarkey. The problem is it’s not just nonsense but dangerous nonsense: the government seems seriously intent on trying to impose it. It seems barely conceivable that they could actually get away with it, and they might need EU-led regionalisation to achieve it. But it needs to be denounced for what it is: the attempt to craft a new unitary Britain that is predicated on the denial not just of England but of the other nations of the UK as nations. This madness must stop.

By: aelwulf

aelwulf — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 00:11:19 +0000

—–to England.

By: WessexMan

WessexMan — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:58:55 +0000

Hey! Teacher leave those kids alone!

By: WessexMan

WessexMan — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:48:19 +0000

Funny thing this Britishness! When Gordon Brown goes rushing over to Paris,when England were in the Rugby World Cup final,was he thinking of Britishness or England winning the World cup! either way gordons on a winner ! when the Ministry of defence banned RAF men & women from wearing there uniforms in public was that Britishness or Cowardice! heaped on our marvellous servicemen.. All you hear on the news !bad weather in southern Britain ! how can you have southern Britain- instead of England! what absolute rubbish! reckon these think tanks spread over the country are writing scripts/guidelines for news-announcements/statements all the supermarkets there british no English Products,only the people working there it is nothing more than blatant properganda & discrimination !

By: LBB

LBB — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:01:46 +0000

“the English people are not as stupid as the Westminster politicians think we are”.

I’m sorry britologywatch but I think there are a few million out there that havn’t got a clue about the present situation, as has been stated elsewhere, to them britain is England and England is britain, and Westminster is the English parliament, when people were quized about swearing allegience to britishness on the TV news the other day not one of them challenged the reporter or even mentioned England, they just mumbled something to the effect that it’s not british to do that sort of thing, so that put it all into context to me.

Remember, there are 500 or so English MP’s at Westminster that are stupid, or am I being naive, they have their snouts wedged too tightly in the trough to want to do anything about the situation that might eventually rob them of their “nice little earner”, they just lie back and think of britain! and we have to suffer the indignity of being stateless people.

By: Derek

Derek — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:41:28 +0000

In fact britologywatch I’d go futher in your last sentence and say that we English are not as stupid as the Westminster politicians are!

By: britologywatch

britologywatch — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:13:04 +0000

The point is, Derek, that the English view as such is being deliberately suppressed. As you say, there is no official voice for England; and in the interview on Radio Four yesterday, and in his report itself, Goldsmith stubbornly avoided making any reference to England or to English people as such as having any distinct point of view or input into said debate. He just referred to a multiplicity of identities within Britishness. At least, this is consistent: the whole British-citizenship exercise is orientated towards suppressing the idea of England and the English as a nation; so it makes sense not to refer to England and to pretend that it does not exist – not one single reference in a 12-minute item.

In answer to your specific question, none of the mainstream parties have any distinct policies or make any attempt to represent England and the English people; so they can’t speak for England on this topic. It’s up to organisations like the CEP or the English Democrats, plus the blogging community, it seems to me. The more we point out the lunacy of all this, the more we might gradually be heard. After all, the English people are not as stupid as the Westminster politicians think we are.